The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Say you've got a 32" Krieger 1/9 .257 blank, and you mountain hunt. Whattaya build?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Say you've got a 32" Krieger 1/9 .257 blank, and you mountain hunt. Whattaya build? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
Due to a project that changed directions I have an obscure blank I'd normally just sell cheap, but it's so obscure I'm intrigued. It's a 32" finished length oversize diameter straight cylinder .257 1/9 stainless Krieger. It was going to be cut to 20" and machined with integral quarter rib, front sight, and sling stud hence the oversize diameter. The stub was going to become a fire forming barrel on a junky action (no SBR deal here). Now that project (a Satterlee full Titanium Mauser) has morphed into an ultralight .375 2 1/4 Nitro for guiding brown bear hunts, as I need a weighs nothing puncher more now than a mountain goat slaying Mauser. My thoughts are, 18 1/2-20" Kimber 84M .250AI, and a cheap ~12" fire forming gun. 32" .257 Weatherby, on a stainless Ruger No.1 I'm not using. Can't really see carrying this rifle though as it'd be too heavy for what I do, would be interesting though. Something intriguing about an 80gr TTSX well above 4,000fps. 32" .25-284 on a Kimber 84M, turn the barrel down to 1/2" after the first 6" and sleeve it in aluminum. Unconventional and interesting. Absolutely unconcerned with barrel walk as it warms with the dissimilar metals, as two shots are all that would ever be asked of it in an hour. For a cold bore it'd work just swell. 32" Model 70 .25-270WSM. This gun would be for wolves and goats inside 500 yards. | ||
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I like that first option, 2 guns from one barrel! There are still remington stripped M7 actions that are undesignated, floating around. You could make a 12" specialty pistol out of that for your fireforming and just for fun. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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The fast twist (for a quarter bore) also compliments that direction, shoot 115s from a mild little carbine. I'm awfully tempted by that Mach 4 possibility though with the long .257, or the .25-284 mountain reacher. | |||
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If I had a Kimber 84M with the .223 family action I would be tempted to built a light .25-45 carbine, especially since factory ammo is available. . | |||
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While neat, afraid it just wouldn't fit any niche I have for a rifle here in BC. It's far too light of a cartridge for mountain goat and lacking the trajectory for our wolf shooting. Strikes me as a nice cartridge for a 4 1/2lb pencil barreled setup for walking somewhere sunny with nice small bodied deer and coyotes. | |||
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It has the same ballistics as the original .250-3000 Savage.  . | |||
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| One of Us |
just do something simple. the mauser sized action will handle and feed the 257 Bob AI with no alterations. it'll also sling lighter bullets to some impressive velocity's with no trouble. and the heavier ones fast enough to matter. I have the 250 AI and it does alright for what it is but brass Is hard to get and a bit of a pain to make fit the chamber properly from other stuff. if I had the giant barrel and was starting mostly from scratch and wanted a shooter but didn't care about looks. I'd just cut the stock off about 2-3" in front of the recoil lug and glue everything together from the cut back to the tang with bedding compound and rest the barrel on the bag to shoot. | |||
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I'd turn that barrel down to a lightweight or Featherweight contour at 24", chamber it in 25-.284 and hammer goats and wolves with it. 100 grain TTSX, 110 Accubonds, 117 Sierras and various 120's would be great candidates to run fast and fly far. | |||
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Fair point, though admittedly sadly lacking for what I need it to do. Even my .250AI idea is truthfully and it's a good jump up from .25x45. I just like the .250AI. Mountain goats are tough from a 115gr .25-06's perspective, let alone a .223 based cartridge, but perhaps most importantly the trajectory of the 25x45 is abysmal in speedy .25 cartridge terms. Seems 4 feet low at 500 if what I read earlier was right, with a 200 yard zero. British Columbia would be just asking too much of a very small round. From the floatplane my territory is within view of the Alaska border, and few already choose .25's for Alaskan mountain work, let alone the smallest of them. I absolutely agree it's a neat round, the 25x45, just far, far too light for what I seek here.
Fair point 'Bob AI is high on the list too, it can fit in the 84M which is my favourite production action in the turnbolt world. Appreciate the thoughts on the .250AI there, thank you for them. Can't remember the last time I bench shot or used bags, would have been a sight in. Closest range is about 150 miles from here, doesn't seem like much of a loss though, I'd rather go calling. Suppose I'm rambling to say I'd want a useful, and packable option, clean package.
With the .25-284 can't help but get curious what the 32" would do for it. I can always lop off 8" later.  I suspect she'd put the 80r TTSX in 4,000 territory, that would allow a 400 yard point blank range if zeroed 350ish. There's a beautiful utility in that for wolf shooting, and mountain work. | |||
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After listening to how light bullets are horrible at killing "deer" size game I'm surprised at you Angus ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Not when they're doing 4,000fps, Ted. Even though my position on the .243 was it is reasonable, though not exceptional in any factor, I've yet to achieve 4,000+FPS with mine. On these guys, the .250 AI or .243 are both ideal.  | |||
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I've always thought a 25 Souper would be pretty cool...  | |||
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Just wouldn't make quite the use of the 32" that a .25-284 could. With excellent Lapua brass readily available for 6.5-284, and the ease of one pass case forming, think this is the front runner, utilizing the full 32". I can tolerate some weight for the 32" barrel when the result is Mach 4, I'm a big fan of a long zero so no holdovers or dialing elevation as far as 400 yards. But I'm rambling.  | |||
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| one of us |
Very interesting ideas! Hate to bring this up for the 25x284, but not sure you can fit that in a Montana 84M and drive it as fast as you want unless its a single shot (maybe that is what is planned?). The magazine length is only 2.8" or so, and I believe the case length on a 6.5x284 runs ~ 2.2"+/-, leaving a 0.6" for the bullet. An 80 grain TTSX is 1.01" (a 100 grain is ~1.2") long, so you'd have to put it pretty deep in the case and take up some of your powder capacity. Assuming you are only looking at short actions, I'd run about a 23" barrel with the 80 grain and see how fast you can push it. That also assumes that an 80 grain pill is enough to anchor a mountain goat... Just my thoughts, worth what you paid for them ______________________ Ken A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. --- Greek Proverb | |||
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So you want to shoot at mach 4. Have you considered the .257 STW? . | |||
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I *think* with it seated to the front band, the 80gr TTSX should come in under 2.8" in the .284 case. I'm in camp in the bush without my component stash to measure however. You raise a good point, 80gr isn't ideal for mountian goats, but it'll do it if fast enough. I'm loathe not to make use of the over-length barrel so I won't be trimming it for any of the larger case capacities (above .308 capacity). To Grenadier, yes indeed thought about it, it's just so inefficient and barely outperforms the already inefficient .257 WBY. I don't think I'll need to go faster than a .257 WBY can from 32", as few bullets can survive it anyhow. | |||
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I have been on two mountain goat hunts. Each was the adventure of a life time in beautiful, hazardous terrain. Goats live in wide-open places where they can see for a very long ways. They were bigger than i expected and very muscled-up with lots on hair to slow a bullet. On my last goat hunt we had climbed for six hours liesurly to atop a ridge line. While eating and enjoying the view i notice bear tracks. I could not believe that there would be a bear up on top of this mountain, but apparently it is not uncommon. I can not overstate the muscularity of an adult mountain goat and would caution you not to underestimate it either. My suggestion would be to go up to a 160- 180 grain bullet or even more. Im not sure you could be over gunned. Have fun on your trip. | |||
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The 1-9" .257 bore is ideal for ringing the best accuracy out of the slower 25 cal rounds ,up to the standard 257 Roberts, with heavy bullets. 257AI on up does fine with a 1-10 twist. I like your 250AI idea, but you can fire form cases in the gun without wasting bullets using the cream-of-wheat method. My personal choice would be the standard or AI Bob. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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I'm actually the guide and outfitter, so for better or worse not a trip but the job. You nailed some good points, however a .25 will kill them well with a good bullet and speed, and this "for science" project is all about the trajectory and getting a 400 yard PBR with sacrifices in bullet weight. I caution clients I'd rather see them with a six pound .270 than a eight pound .300. Both will kill the goat and one lets you travel further and faster, which is by far the most important factor in killing the goat. You're right that they're a lot more heavily constructed than people anticipate, and while guiding a goat hunt this Oct these tracks passed less than a hundred yards behind the high camp above the tree line. The Grizzlies / Browns den high up in the snow on the coast, in my territory you expect to see them up high by late Oct.  | |||
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The one saving grace is Berger's VLD, I suspect the 1-9" will be useful for that. I've had to rule out the .25-284 as it won't fit in an 84M or L due to case diameter, reading info by a Kimber engineer's comments on the subject indicated the 84M/L is just too slim in the chamber section to go larger than a .308/.30-06 case head. So you're dead on for the cartridge class I'm narrowing down to, I have two Kimber Mountain Ascents and an Adirondack and one will likely get this barrel in a 'Bob class case. .25-06AI is high in my rationalisation too, especially given both my Mountain Ascents are .280AIs. | |||
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I don't know much about anything, but why no consideration for the 25-06 Rem? | |||
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If I didn't go with the standard 25/06, I would skip the AI version and go right to the 25 Gibbs. With that long a barrel vel. would be scary fast. | |||
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| one of us |
We agree again I would go with a slim barreled 24 in or so 25-06 and shoot 110 or heavier bullets. | |||
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Theback40 I owe you a debt of gratitude, I've settled on the .25 Gibbs. Thank you for bringing it too my attention, it's too neat and I love something a little different. A hair more than the .25-06 and is the biggest powder charge that will fit in an 84L. That settles that! Will report back with the build in a few months, just ordered dies from CH4D. I had considered the .25 Gibbs for an earlier build and forgotten all about it, it's perfect for what I want to do here, and classic. | |||
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Dies ordered from CH4D, reamer and headspace gauges from PTG, and away we go. Look forward to seeing what numbers this produces. Also picked up a spare .25-06 84L barrel to play with, will ream that out first and it may be the first iteration to play with the cartridge, then likely will rig it up as a fireformer barrel. | |||
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Wish you were in the states, as I have a set of RCBS 25 Gibbs dies, that I could let go of pretty reasonable. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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Postage to Canada is cheap! This said likely too late for me to cancel with CH4D. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have a 240 and 6.5 Gibbs, 26 and 27" barrels. The gibbs cartridges like long barrels and slow powders. I will be very curious with what you end up with. | |||
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I'm thinkin 3800+ with the 110 accubond... go ahead....make my day Anything worth doing is worth doing right the first time. | |||
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Turn the barrel down to a weight that's acceptable to you. Cut it to 26" Chamber in 257 WBY Go kill stuff NRA Patron member | |||
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Turned down it will be, cut, it won't be. Would be a waste of an interesting thing unless I got two guns out of cutting it in half. .257 Wby / .25 Gibbs / .25-06 AI are all interesting from 26". From 32" they may be extraordinary. | |||
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hook that 32 inch barrel to any good single shot action, leave it full length and chamber it in 257 Wby. 25 Gibbs, 25-06 etc. Shooting Barnes 80 grains you should get some spectacular velocity maybe 3800-4000 fps? With no bolt length for the action, the gun won't be too long. | |||
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Make a 257Weatherby out of it. | |||
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| One of Us |
I second the 257 Weatherby but would go 257 Weatherby improved. Shoots like a laser beam. The only easy day is yesterday! | |||
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| One of Us |
257 on the 338 RUM, perhaps...? | |||
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| one of us |
Cut it off to 22 inches turn it to a featherweight 257 Robts or Ackley or even a 25-06..But for goats etc. I can't think of anything better than the 250-3000 or the 250 IMP if you must..You have a big bore, and the std 250 kills so well and is such a pleasure to shoot, no recoil, but Id opt for a 22 inch barrel, you get so much for that extra 2 inches and you'll never know the difference.. Just to excite the masses of AR, I have never been able to tell the difference in the 250-3000 and the big 25s as to trajectory, or killing power...I have used the 257 Robts and 25-06 and they are all about equal in the real world of hunting. I have hunted the "moutains" all my life, never shot a goat or a sheep past 125 yards..but sure climbed and walked my ass off along the way. It seems to me were getting away from hunting and becoming a bunch of shooters..All I see on TV is big ole fat boys with big ole rifles that park their truck on a mountain top and flop their fat ass on a blanket with their cap on backwards..One has to wonder just how many they wound before they get a movie made..welcome to Hollywood Wy... My rant for today, and they are legal. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Say you've got a 32" Krieger 1/9 .257 blank, and you mountain hunt. Whattaya build?
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