I will be receiving my rebarreled & rechambered Rem. 700 (rechambered to tactical twenty)from Pac-Nor on 6/14/02-Friday. I have formed IMI 223 brass with the dies from Todd Kindler of the Woodchuck Den. This is my first wildcat and I'm not sure about the type (very mild, mild, medium, or 95% of max) of loads to fireform brass. I will also be using these loads for breaking in the 26 inch stainless barrel. I will be using H4198, Rem. 7 1/2 primers, and 33gr. Hornady V-Max. Any advice on fireforming, loading, or tips on this caliber would be greatly appreciated.

You're gonna love your Tactical 20, if it turns out to be like mine. Got a T20 barrel from
VVCG for my T/C Encore. Shot a 1/8" 3-shot group with it a couple of weeks ago.
However, I doubt if it EVER gets the speeds Todd has gotten. At 24.7gr of H4198, the
CCI Mag primers are REALLY flattened out, and some of the Win cases even have powder
blow-back around the primer. I'm putting together some more which will be loaded with
24gr. If that turns out to be just as accurate, I'll be plenty happy with just over 4000fps.
The Hornady's are pretty good - I don't care for the 36gr Bergers. Just today, I got my
hands on a hundred 30gr 5mm bullets to try. They're .0005 larger in diameter, so I'll have
to be careful for the first few rounds. Doubt if they can be pushed past 3600fps, but that'll
still be good for squirrel head-shots!

oops. Forgot to say that the loads/accuracy don't seem to matter
a lot during fireforming, or so I was told. Perhaps that could have
been part of my primer blow-back problem. Light loads didn't seem
to quite get the wrinkles out below the shoulder. My last 100 rounds
for fire-forming will be getting the 24gr of H4198 behind the 33gr
VMax's.

DannoBoone, Thanks much for the information. I don't seem to have any of the wrinkles under the shoulders that you mentioned. You could be using too much lube on the neck and shoulder. I'm hoping for around 4200 fps. with the 26 inch barrel. Supposedly, the IMI brass is a little harder so that you could load it a little warmer. I think thats why Todd prefers IMI brass.
I'll keep you posted as I begin testing next week.
Thanks again.

TD,

I have to echo some of Dan's comments in that my cases wrinkled some on the neckdown process also. Not having the rifle in hand yet, you may find that you have to push your shoulders back a bit more than you have them now, which will make the wrinkles.

Also, the H4198 gave me more way more pressure than I was comfortable with, and I ended up pulling bullets. After that episode, I used W748 to form with basically because you can't get enough in the case to hurt anything. I also use H322, another too slow powder, but it shoots so well I haven't tried much else.

I love mine, bet you will too.
When you get yours broke in and loads worked up, let us know how it shoots.

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/6mmackley/twentycaliber.html

Mike Johnston

Thanks Mike. I am concerned about not having the shoulders pushed back far enough and will make sure they are when I get the gun. I should have a powder with the burn rate of the W748 to use for fire forming. The walleye fishing in N. Dakota is picking up so it may be two to three weeks before I have a report. Too many things to do and my job always seems to get in the way! Thanks again for the tips.

Tran Doan

TD - Yes, I'm sure the IMI brass will hold up better than the good ol' Winchester
brass at high pressures, but I'm also concerned with barrel life. This custom
stainless barrel cost a pretty penny, and I'd hate to have it shot out with just
a couple thousand rounds.

Hi Mike! - Was gonna email ya with some results, but you've already seen a little of
it here, and since we're already on the other subject:

I GOT THE WRINKLES OUT!!! VVCG made me a preform die (a LOT less expensive
than the Mack IV preform die), by simply using their chamber reamer in die stock.
It took some doing to get the correct height, but by using that until the shoulder is
just beginning to bulge, and then running it through the Redding T20 die, there are
absolutely no wrinkles at all!

Dan,

The Tactical Twenty was the work horse on our last P-dog trip, getting the most use over 3 .22-250s, a 6mm Ackley, and a .17HMR, with the .17 getting the second spot. That .204 Vmax bullet out of a .223 case is unbelieveable. When time and bucks permit, I'll do another.

Glad to hear your die worked out. I have enough cases fireformed now to last a while, so the wrinkle concern has faded.

I hope to shoot paper soon, to see if there has been any fall-off in accuracy. It only has ~500 rounds through it, so there shouldn't be.

Don't be holding back info, email your notes and a photo of the rifle so I can post them with the others!

Mike Johnston

I am ready to sound a little stupid : What is a "tactical 20"? Is it a .20/223 wildcat?

I did some cartridge size/bore size scale based on 6 PPC and what I found is if the case width of a 6PPC is shrunk down to a .223Rem case, then its bore size of .243 will scale down to about .205. Then I said there is no .20 cal in the market. But you guys are shooting some .204 V-MAX from Hornady? Kindly let me know plz.

Hey Pyrotek!

The Tactical 20 is practically a 20/.223 except that the shoulder is bumped back somewhat
and at least in my rifle, the shoulder/top case diameter is about .010" larger than the .223
case which gives it less of a taper than the .223. The Calhoon 19/223 is changed less, with
the neck only being sized to the caliber.

The inventor of the cartridge, Todd Kindler, has an article on it at the following URL:
http://www.smallcaliber.com/html/tactical20.html

Mike J also has info about the Tactical 20 given in his first post of this string.

There is a little more to the 19-223 than described. Most of the taper is taken out, shoulder change to 35 degrees and moved forward. Has same capacity as 222mag.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/stanmyers/19.223.jpg

Gents,

Sway my thinkin' here.

I have three 223Ackley's,it is the endall,for me.A pard built a 223AI also,but is contemplating the Tac Twenty next.

What advantages would you see in the Tac Twenty,over the 223AI pushing 40's at 4000fps or 50's at 3750fps? Neither he,nor I,have ever dabbled with the 20. My gut feeling,is that the 223AI "wins" both the performance race and of course component availability/diversity.

Talk me into a 20..................

Big Stick,
I feel the Tactical Twenty has a couple slight advanages over the 223 Ackley Improved. The Tactical Twenty moving at 4300 fps has a little less drop and drift to 500 yards than the 223 Improved cases and does it with less recoil. The 20 calibers also seem inherently accurate as well. This long range advantage will really improve if one of the bullet companies see the light and produce a 36-37 grain V-Max style bullet with a .100 long baot-tail in 20 caliber.We also have the 20 PPC,20 BR and soon to be introduced the Twenty Terminator based on the 222 Remington Magnum that will drive those hot little 33 gr. Hornady V-Max bullets to 4400-4500 fps!!The fun is just begining my friend.
We have in stock everything to support the 20 calibers from Redding & Wilson dies to 20 caliber cleaning supplies and 20 caliber neck turners and funnels. AND just released is our new 20 caliber loading manual called the "Terrific Twenties" that cover the 20 Squirrel to the 20 BR and many in between!
Your 223 Ackley Improved is a fantastic varmint cartridge and so is the Tactical 20! Hope this helps.

Todd Kindler-Editor Small Caliber News www.smallcaliber.com
(330)897-0614
or The Woodchuck Den Inc. www.woodchuckden.com
(330) 897-0614
Ph.(330)897-0614

Todd,

Your Publication,is what has fueled all the scheming on my pards part. A very good read,in my opinion.

I appreciate your input on the Twenty and will spread the word. Might you have knowledge of any forthcoming projectile offerings,in that diameter? That would sweeten the pot,despite my being the V-Max's biggest fan(regardless of diameter).

Obliged...............

Correction to post dated 06/11/02, 7:55pm - Upon reviewing my records,
the load I mentioned at 24.7gr of H4198 was actually 25.1gr which did
give me high pressure signs at the primer with the 33gr Hornady bullets
and BLOWN primers with the 36gr Bergers. Sorry guys - just goes to
prove with this typo that one should make sure to follow the book, and
be careful about a post!