I've owned two 22-250's, a Remington that I shot out and converted to a XTC Highpower rifle in 240NMC, and a Savage M10 that I currently have. I like the ballistic performance of the cartridge and have been very happy with the accuracy of both rifles. What I don't like is needing to trim cases so often because of the case taper. I don't run excessively hot loads and only set the shoulder back 2-3 thousandths on Win cases, but it seems like I am getting 5-10 thousandth growth each firing. I have a motorized trimmer that is pretty quick, but still don't like doing it. I know I can Ackley it, but I don't want the additional case capacity and associated barrel wear. So what cartridges would give similar performance without so much case prep each time, i.e. something with less body taper. Something that doesn't require a bunch of neck turning would be nice but I can do three cases a minute in the lathe so one time prep on 300 cases is not too onerous. For the Savage I can change the bolt head if need be on the next barrel. I already have Sako L461's in .222 and .222 Mag so I would like to keep the muscle the 22-250 provides for longer shots in the wind. Any thoughts?

Won't ever own another .22/250 for the very same reason . I'm on my third Swift though. .22/250 Ackley would be OK with similar capacity to the Swift . Very little difference in barrel life to the parent round so wouldn't concern myself with that issue.

I know this is not exactly what you asked for (alternative caliber options), but if you otherwise like the .22-250 you should also consider the following:

1) you could start neck-sizing only, that effectively eliminates lengthening of the cases in the sizing operation.

2) if you prefer to FL size, a major potential reason for case growth over the fire/resize cycle is a mismatch between chamber and die dimensions. If your chamber is on the large side and/or your die on the small side, you'll inevitably get case growth. You can eliminate most of this by having a custom FL die made to match the size of your chamber. Hornady (and others?) will make you a custom FL sizing die to match your fired brass for a bit over $100.

3) you can measure the actual length of your chamber (Sinclair sells a "chamber length gauge"), and only trim when your brass exceeds your actual chamber length, as opposed to trimming for SAAMI chamber length. Normally, factory chambers are AT LEAST .01" longer than SAAMI specs. So only trimming when exceeding the actual length of your chamber saves you part of the effort.

I know that cases with more body taper tend to grow more, but the above minimizes the effect.

Good luck - mike

Mike,

Good suggestions, all. I do have a Redding three die set with the neck die.
1. I will see if neck sizing will give me a couple cycles without risking a tight case. Not as big a deal though shooting ground squirrels, as it is in a rapid fire stage XTC.
2. Custom die isn't likely.
3. I'll make up a brass spigot to measure the neck length on the Savage. I've been meaning to do it for a while and now will make the time.


Still interested in case/caliber suggestions too.
Greg

Why not a .243 or a 6mm Rem? You can drive a 70 grain bullet as fast as a .22-250 will drive a 55 grainer with a 6mm.

I think one of the main causes of necks lengthening is that the sizer DOESN'T fit the chamber dimensions...almost ALL the sizers I have ever used resize to a minimum size...When you fire a case in a larger chamber the brass is stretched by pressure in 3 dimensions. That means brass is moved from one part of the case to another part...pressure does things to metals.

Couple that with the use of a "button" that grabs the brass and again stretches it and you have case growth...the amount is directly proportional the difference between the sizer shape and size and the chamber shape and size.

You can have a sizer made/adjusted by sending in 3 cases usually and your sizer to any of the major die makers, or have a smith/yourself polish the inside of the sizer to reduce differences, use a bushing type neck sizer only die with a bushing that just reduces the neck OD by 0.002" or so.

Use a set of RCBS X dies that actuall push the stretching back but also cause the necks to thicken.

Use a set of Hornady headspace/bullet length gauges and Redding comp shell holders to measure and regulate the amount the shoulder gets pushed back...I have a set of the early Stoney and late Hornady(same things), many I made myself and I'm continuously and continually making new ones.

Or just live with the facts...this question has been discussed many times, but I haven't yet seen where someone has actuall DONE the required work and posted the results. Getting your dies fitted takes work and costs as much as a new set of dies or more, so that fact gets blown off as the cost of brass is cheap in comparison and most shooter would rather watch football than deal with trimming...me included, but have a setup where I can do those mundane, onorous tasks while I watch vids.

Bottom line is you can reduce the amount of stretch buy doing the above, but you CAN'T eliminate it.

I think that all the BS about certain cases are prone to stretching is mostly just that...Some high pressure cartridges like the Swift and long sloping cases like the 300 and 375 H&H are reputed to be case eaters. I have both and a bunch of others covering the spectrum and have performed many tests on just this subject...NO ONE believes the results so I quit posting what I found out.

One of the first things I do with ANY cartridge case is to fit the sizer to the chamber. I also use Redding bushing dies, Redding comp shell holder, grind sizer bases or shell holders to reduce shoulder push back to a minimum of 0.002" and polish to reduce the amount of "squeezing" done on the case base to about the same amount.

I headspace on the shoulder on ALL my belted mags and every one of them have case life expectancies of a minimum of 10 firings...that's MY limit with ANY high pressure case...but in tests my 375 H&H went twice that many, full power loads and still was chugging along.

I have several cases on my desk that have gone between 20 and 50 reloads...223, 308, 444M, 45-70, both bottlenecked and straight walled belted mag, and I have several boxes of 38/357, 44S/44Mag cases that have been fired with both light and heavy loads going back to the late 50's. I also have cases that were killed in ONE firing.

Case trimming and all the other required things are part and parcel of this sport if you want accurate ammo and long case life.

Luck

what about a 22 BR ? same headsize, not sure how it stacks up vel wise. I have a reamer you can use, never got around to doing one myself.

quote:

Originally posted by kjjm4:
Why not a .243 or a 6mm Rem? You can drive a 70 grain bullet as fast as a .22-250 will drive a 55 grainer with a 6mm.

Component cost, recoil, and I don't think the big 6mms are going to put up with 300-400 rds a day shooting squirrels.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
what about a 22 BR ? same headsize, not sure how it stacks up vel wise. I have a reamer you can use, never got around to doing one myself.

I've thought about the 22BR and think it should be pretty close in performance. PM sent on reamer.
Greg

Foobar,
I agree with you on most of that and do in fact use Redding competition shell holders for minimal sizing, polish expander balls, etc.. I realize it won't be eliminated, but I've got other cases that stretch little to none, even cycled through an AR, and I attribute that to case design given the same prep. I will disagree with you on one point though. I think it is a waste of money to custom fit a sizer to a factory chamber, unless there was something wrong with the chamber. In that case I would be more inclined to set back and chamber with a reamer of known tolerance. Then I would get a custom die, if I keep the reamer.

To accentuate your point...My 240NMC is the 22-250 blown out in the body, same 28 degree shoulder, and necked up to 6mm (6XC is similar). Winchester cases grow a couple thou per firing because the custom Hornady dies are based of the chamber reamer for good fit. Only reason I get as much growth as I do is the case needs to feed flawlessly in rapid fire so there is more tolerance than a BR rifle would have. So I acknowledge and agree with your point of die fit, but I'm not going to spend $100+ to fit a die to a factory Savage barrel. When I have a custom chamber cut, different story.

Well, I'm no expert on anything. I do the things that have proven to work for me and I'm continually trying new things and tools, doing things that sometimes work and more often than not just open up another round of questions...and pushing the envelope here and there.

This game is like Golf or any other sport...sometimes you make par, sometimes do under par and collect your Nassau, but most often stop marking your score about the third hole, and just enjoy the game.

Custom chambers and dies always work best because of the fitment and care usually reserved for custom work...but EVERY custom die I've seen fell into the "pricey" catagory...and I'm a junk yard dog and economically challenged to boot.

I agree that rechambering is an alternative...I didn't list that because I wouldn't rechamber a factory barrel unless it was a bugholer to begin with and if it was I wouldn't do ANYTHING to it fearing messing around could only make things worse.

I've bought many Savage factory barrels and used them on other brand rifles with excellent success and a few that were junk and ended up being chopped up and made into stub and dummy barrels, gauges, etc...I couldn't see anything wrong with the steel itself, only the processes of making an accurate barrel.

I have 2 SA and 2 LA Savage actions, all with several barrels apiece. The Savage receiver is as accurate as any factory receiver of any brand and they are very easy to setup and swap around with or without a nut.

I usually just polish out a cheap sizer...and use a Forster Ultra seater if a slider is available. I tend to start with a factory chamber and then do some wildcating once it proves accurate.

I can polish a die to within 0.001" in about an hour of futzing around. Lee sizer dies are cheap, some are soft enough to cut with a reamer and there are blank dies available relatively cheap also. It takes me longer to set up and make a Wilson type sizer on my manual lathe and costs more in T&M than just buying one new or used and fitting it.

If you've been at this game any length of time, you understand what's needed and in todays world all the "stuff" has been pretty well spread around and understood and as ecomonical as possible, taken into consideration and implemented in the newer factory offerings.

Basically...what best to do and the cost depends on many factors starting at the beginning point(where ever that lies)...and pretty much impossible to do anything but play the "yes...but..." game when discussing it.

I've done all that I listed and many other actions to many different guns over time...and done many things that didn't do anything but teach me something which in itself is valuable.

I hardly ever subscribe to the "righ/wrong", "good/bad", "better/best" stuff as that just serves to limit me, lock me into some rut or blind me to other possibilities.

In the bad old days of my benchresting, I had a few rifles that had chambers cut so well I never did use a sizer...just the spring of the brass was enough and the cases were neck turned so the bullet was just started in with my fingers, then finished seating in the chamber by closing the bolt.

As long as the pressure was kept below the ductility/malleability deforamation set point the cases would last a good while...get too high and you ruin the case.

No matter what, brass moves under pressure and tends to want to even out. I suspect some of the reason for case lengthening in very tapered cases has to do with the pressure causing the brass to migrate along the line of taper, something like a stress riser not liking a square corner or and edge...but what do I know.

Again, it basically boils down to what YOU think is needed and are willing to do to get where you want to go.

Luck

22BR (Norma, not Remington)

Then send a couple of fired cases to the Harrel Brothers for one of their excellent bushing bump dies.

Life will be good.

Charlie

I have a 22-250 in Rem 788.

I've never had any issues with the cases needing excessive triming, but I only do a partial full length resize with that rifle.

Not even going to try to answer the part about reducing neck lengthening. Others have already covered that.

Will just comment on your reasons for not wanting an AI chamber.

You do not HAVE to load the AI improved cases up to the level of increased throat erosion over that already inherent in the .22-250 round.

They will work just fine without that. So, if you think that an AI chamber would reduce your neck stretchng problem, go for it! Just don't pump the loads up afterwards.

I'm not seeing that in my 22.250s... some neck trimming but very very infrequent...

I don't redline them.. but many loads not that far off max MV..

must have something to do with the way the chamber is set up..

use body dies and neck sizers for most resizing now.. and anneal every 4th time..

Lee collet dies solve the problem and very accurate.

surprises me, but also try some of Alliants new AR Comp powder...

at least in a couple of my rifles.. winding it up, and testing this, I am not having to trim the cases...

it is a temp insensitive version of RL 15 with a slightly quicker burn rate...