Need help settling an argument, should predator loads (fox & coyotes) be hot or mild. I know velocity effects accuracy, how about the effect on the hides? We are shooting FMJ bullets to save the hides,. I say it shouldn’t make a difference but my buddy insists we need to shoot mild loads based on some advise he got at work

What say you?

just one guy's opinion here....speed rips hides apart....FMJs won't save you but keeping the velocity down is the key.....sorry if you lose this one!

V-dog, I'm shooting Barnes 90 grn banded solids out of my 257 Bob AI (know your not a fan of AI), great accuracy

Do you think I'd be OK shooting Sierra's 90 grn HP at low fps for dogs, I use them for target practice

In all sincerity abob I think the bullet you use isn't really important.....among the advantages of heavier bulets is that they shoot slower and upset less in smaller animals. If you can keep velocities down to about 2,000-2,500 PFS your hides will be in better shape....but focus more on lower velocity than which bullet.....

I think either the Barnes or the Sierra will work well for you if the velocity is kept low...and I mean boringly low!

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
(know your not a fan of AI),

For the record.....I have absolutely no problem with wildcats of any kind.....not AI or Gibbs or any other wildcat.....But I do have a problem with the misrepresentation of these rounds.

Let me tell you a little story about a local fellah that dabbels a bit as a hobbyist gunsmith....He had built a .257 Roberts AI and was telling me how great it shot.....further wanted me to see it.....so "off to the range" we went.....(but I also have a .257 Roberts and took along a single cartridge)

He took a five shot group at 100 yards and then asked me to walk down to measure it.....and I did but while I was walking down range I noticed him making a trip to his truck....The group was about .7 or there abouts.....actually an impressive group. ( i USED A 6" SCALE)

He then set up a chronograph to show me the velocity he was getting.....and while he set up his chronograph I tested the muzzle of his gun with my .257 Roberts bullet.....it slid in easily....all the way....I said nothing.

He was shooting Nosler 85 grain ballistic tips and the chronograph clocked an impressive 3,700 FPS give or take....

I asked him to shoot another group with the gun but he said he was out of time and had to run.... So I folded up his chrony and put it in the back of his truck for him while he put the gun away.....and of course that's when I saw the other Remington 722 rifle....exactly like the one he was putting away.... He had two rifles....one that shot great groups and one that had the rifling reamed out of it that he used to show impressive velocity.....I'll bet anything the darn bullets were keyholing as they passed over the chronograph.....and the chronograph was placed unusually close to the muzzle.....AND YES....I HAD BEEN TIPPED OFF ABOUT ALL THIS BEFOREHAND.

On another forum a guy insisted that his 6.5 X 55 military rifle would shoot 3/4" groups at 200 yards and with iron sights.....strangely enough he wouldn't come to my range to show me.....I had to go to his range for the proof....

Two guys post here that have fairly good experience with the AI rounds and IMO tell it like it is....."Ramrod340" and "Ackley Improved User"...both seem to have a good handle on the difference between reality and something other than that.....a few others seem to not be able to tell the difference.

OK, now that VAPODOG has got me pointed in the right direction

Anyone got a low, low, low velocity load for 257 Bob AI for 90 grn bullets?

I have read warnings about reduced loads

Send a PM to seafire2and see if he has any bluedot loads for you

quote:

Anyone got a low, low, low velocity load

Not for 257 AI but along those lines. I was playing around with my mini-14 in 223 with a muzzle blast suppressor I had made and cast bullets. I was using a 'Unique' equivalent. I took the load down to just be able to drive the bullet out the bore. This was a completely silent load. I worked up in small increments until muzzle blast became audible then beyond some until groups opened up (no gas checks). Pressure indications on the primer were in line with the powder charge, so nothing untoward was going on.

My only suggestion for your needs would be to use a powder charge that will still be mild if doubled! (That's because it can happen and you cannot see into the case).

Good Shooting!

Rick Kinmon recommends around 2800 fps ... He shoots a 6mm PPC with 80 gr Hornady FMJ bullets and has killed a book full of fox with that load ...My goal in my 223 is 2900 fps with tiny group accuracy with 55 gr Hornady FMJ or 53 gr TSX bullets ... I will try to duplicate his velocity with my 243 win , and in the 260 Rem with 110 mgr bullets ... I will also hopefully try the 93 gr GS SP bullet in 6.5 mm ... ...................

. Mr Kinmon states the coyote is fairly tough as far as the hide is concerned but that fox and lynx can easily get blown out in the crotch , aparantly from the hydralic pressure of stopping the bullet inside the animal , and if the rapidly expanding bullets do exit they can tear the hide up quite bad . From this pic you can,t see the destruction my 416 did .. it blew the chest apart . but I don,t think a coyote can be expected to contain 5,000 ft lbs of impact energy ...... 350 gr Speer HotCor ,, Impact velocity ,around 2500 fps ... I,ve never seen an animal hit the ground any faster ..

Shooting for pelts is a fickle thing. I don't think anyone has a guarantee answer. Two theories, shoot a highly frangible bullet at a very high velocity and hope it stays inside or shoot a stout bullet at a relatively slow velocity knowing that it will create an exit.

You are choosing the stout route. Your main enemy will be bone. If you hit bone especially on the far side then you will have many odd shaped projectiles travelling at various angles at about the same speed as the bullet. It's gonna blow a hole.

I've tried both ways with the 222 and like I said I found it to be fickle. My best success has been going to the Hornet or a shotgun. Just have to limit myself to 200 or 50 yards. With the hornet worst case on a fox is a hole about the size of a quarter.

For your 257 with a FMJ my guess is you will have better success by reasonably slowing it down.

Convinced slower is better so I going to experiment with some Blue Dot loads

Well, just back from the range, tried the lightest load of RL-15 I could find in all my manuals for 90 grn bullets, not very accurate, I'll try working up some Blue Dot loads soon as they get some back here in AK, I was too late, shelves were empty by the time I decided to get some

your question brought to mind something i read about the subject many years ago. i can't recall who wrote it, but he was a well known gun and preditor type at the time. the article discussed using a 7mm.magnum with reduced loads for coyotes.
the most interesting part of the article stated that he used a full jacketed wadcutter type bullet of about IIRC 90gr. at about 2100 fps. claimed that the wadcutter would punch a clean hole with almost no other damage, regaurdless of range. there was still plenty of velocity to get out to 400 yds with them. i wish i could remember more, the article was a few pages long and went on in detail about how he made his projectiles from exhisting bullets by reversing flat based spire points and cutting the ogive off( or something like that), but it just too long ago. i was in my late teens/early 20's at the time and i'm 53 now!
that's something i always wanted to try doing. we have a pretty healthy population of coyotes around here and i have a small river bottom that they "hunt" pretty heavily right out my back door.

Try using a reduced charge of IMR 3031. It is normally very accurate at 2000 fps or so. I had a back injury awhile back and shot 35grs. of 3031 w/ 180 hornady rn in a .300 wm and got about 1 moa. You might need to use round nose bullets in order to stabilize in your twist.

Thanks Shooter, I'll try the 3031 as soon as they get some back on the shelves, like many places, our Alaska stores have been raped of all reloading components