I'm not referring t shotguns with slugs or muzzleloaders or handguns that derive much of their power from sheer size.....

I'm meaning centerfire rifle calibers.

As to me I can find little use for anything over .270 caliber but use the .30 as it's just so darn common in the USA

The .338 Winchester and Nosler's 250 grain partition will handle any hunting situation I expect to find myself in.

I have killed white tails with a 458 Win Mag..

For most of my hunting for the past 8 years however I use either a 375 H&H or a 35 Whelen.

I just started out using the larger caliber rifles when I first started deer hunting back in 1970.

The first rifle I used was a 670 Winchester in 300 Win Mag..

I have had folks asking me why I want to use rifles of that size and larger, ever since that first buck.

Do I feel that I NEED those size rifles, no.

I have killed a deer with a 22 hornet, and several with a 257 Roberts and a few with a 6.5x55.

Were those deer just as dead as the ones I have killed with the larger guns, yes.

Have I ever lost a deer with any of the larger calibers, no.

In fact, the only deer I know of hitting and losing, was the second one I shot at with the Hornet, that is the last deer I ever shot at with a Hornet.

Do I ever recommend the calibers I shoot or have shot, yes, sometimes and in some situations.

For folks that are just going to be hunting white tails, I list both the 257 Roberts and the 6.5x55 along with some of the more standard calibers.

For folks wanting something slightly more powerful than a 270/308/30-06, I will recommend either the 300 Win Mag or 300 Weatherby Mag..

For something with just a little more swat to it than the 300 Mags, I will recommend the 340 weatherby, simply because I am not a fan of the 338 Win Mag..

Can I or anyone else tell the difference between an animal shot with either, no, it is just my prefernce.

For someone that is interested in something different, I will and do recommend the 35 Whelen.

Do I ever recommend the 375 H&H, very rarely.

From my experience, the reason I like the bigger calibers are, 1, an OD of Elmer Keith's philosophy over Jack O'Connor's, and 2, my hunting style puts me in situations where the only shot I may get during a hunt is at an animal that is moving away from me in moderate brush.

I prefer using a rifle, that is going to be sending a large well constructed bullet to the target, so that if the animal is not exactly standing as it appears in the scope, the bullet will produce both a good entrance and exit wound, possibly breaking the animal down, so that when I reach the spot of the initial hit, I will either be needing to put in a finisher, or follow a decent blood trail to a dead animal.

In all reality, I could do just as well with either the 257 Roberts or the 6.5x55, it is just that the bigger guns are my first choice.

This year it was my 375 RUM, Last year a 300 RSAUM. Next year I think a 338 Win. or an 8x57. I like to use them all, do I need those big ones? No but it sure is fun to try them all..

Big guns can be fun, but I normally never go over a .300 Winchester Magnum for whitetails myself, that's a hell of a lot of gun even for BIG bucks. 7mm Rem Mag is still my go-to for long range stuff and I've never had a problem killing whitetails with it!

Once you get outside of just whitetails, the .300 gets a lot more action (moose and elk). Never really needed more than that since it does the job amazingly well, but big guns come and go every once in a while "just because".

Does my 500 S&W handi-rifle count? Its a pistol cartridge...but in a rifle. Still waiting for a good chance to use it however.

Hey, there are folks that use 50BMG's to kill deer.

Like some one uses in their signature, the line that Elmer Keith is credited with, "I Do Not Feel Over Gunned, Because I Ain't Never Seen A Deer Over Dead", or something along those lines.

Referring back to the too small/inadequate cartridge thread, and the poll results, and then the responses to this thread, while the big guns may not be actually necessary in hunting white tails, in my opinion, the majority of folks seem to believe that there is a point when lack of bullet diameter and bullet weight, preclude its use as an ADEQUATE Deer Hunting round.

This is all JMO.

I took my 35 whelen Imp.hunting two years ago and bagged two does at about 350yards+, seemed to work just fine. Will I take it again, probably, but I have other smaller rifles I use more often. This year so far I used my 7 mag, really more gun than I needed. But I like to take all the rifles I build hunting at least once. So far my favorite is my 7-08 Imp.

My current favorite is a 300 RUM. Mine has a 27.5" barrel and groups around 2" at 500 yds with Berger 185 VLD's. Where I hunt I can have shots out as far as you want to try em. I like to have the knock down at the longer ranges. Might not have a perfect angle when that monster shows up. My second choice is my old 308. God Bless, Louis

This year, I killed deer with my 458 and 338 Magnums. I also try to kill something with every rifle I build.

The 458 is my favorite hunting rifle, right now. It is a Savage 110, with a 20" Stainless barrel. I have had rain and snow almost every day I have hunted. The short barrel and 2-7 scope make it handy in for walks in the woods. I have hunted with a Savage 110 for 20 years (this year!), so I know the action well. All three deer I killed with rifles were from the ground. All quick shots while I was on the move.

Did I need to use a 458 or 338? Yes, I did!

Hey Vapo, Good thread, but a strange Board to crank it up on.

It is very difficult for me to reach past the 350RemMag M7 when I know a HUGE TROPHY Buck is frequenting the woods/swamps. Used to use the 200gr 0.032 Jacket Original Fred Barnes bullets in it. As long as I had the reticle on Brown Hide, and not Brown Pine Trees, they always died. By the way, you can not Bark a Deer, especially if it is so HUGE you can hardly breathe.

Using the 200gr SP Hornady now days and they sure do fine on Shoulder-to-Shoulder shots. Nice Exits if they had been needed, but so far the Deer just go down where they stand.
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The 44Mag is a fine close-up Deer Killer. If you place the Bullet in the near shoulder as the Deer moves the off-side leg forward, they just get pushed over. The Expanded Bullet pushing against the off-side hide just rolls them.

The 444Mar is such a fun and fine Deer Cartridge. Plenty of relatively inexpensive Bullets to practice with and it does what the 44Mag will do, but a bit farther out. Great Marlin rifles too.
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Haven't used a 45-70 in a long time, so I'll leave it for other folks to brag on.
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For me, the 7mmRemMag and 300Win Mags work well at longer distances - when the wind is calm and I know the "actual" distance to where the Deer were standing.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

Since these are last 2 shots today at 300 yards with a 25 mph wind, I think right now it is the 338RUM



You can eat right up to the hole.

Well on the bigger end in my gun cabinet, say bigger than the 30/06.. which my favorite bullet is 220 grains...

I have in no particular order:

300 Win Mag.. favorite load for that.. .83 grains of H1000, 220 grain partition, MV 2950 to 2975 fps...

338 Win Mag...prefer 225 or 250 grain Hornady SPs with those, since Speer quite making my favorite bullet in that bore, the 275 grain SMP...

I really like my Model 70, 338/06... loas that down to 33 Winchester standards if the mood hits me, to pumping it up to pretty close to 338 Win Mag MVs...

My close in rifle... 444 Marlin, 300 grain XTPs, with MV of about 1750 fps..pretty much the only bullet I load in that rifle to hunt...I don't however redline the MV.. can push it faster but don't see the need as it is a 100 to 150 yd rig.. with a 4 power scope on it...

but it is hard for me to hunt with any of these as I miss my 22 Hornet so much...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:

300 Win Mag.. favorite load for that.. .83 grains of H1000, 220 grain partition, MV 2950 to 2975 fps...

Holy crap! That is really pushing a 220 gr bullet out of a 300 win mag. Mine started showing pressure signs at 79.3 gr H1000 with a 200 gr bullet for 2975 fps with a 24" Lothar Walther barrel. And the max load in a Nosler manual for a 220 gr bullet is 75.5 gr H1000 for 2677 fps!

You've got a fast chronograph!

ThaT Is out of a Browning A Bolt...that has been throated out just a hair..

I found that load in an old manual somewhere and worked up to it, and it works well in my rifle...

later found it was over SAAMI specs... but then again, loads with that powder were all over the place for MV....

So I just leave it.. it is a tack driver in that rifle... but it is definitely in 300 Weatherby, 300 Ultra Mag and even 300/378 Weatherby territory....

and my chronograph has been accused of being fast... and yet I have had readings also that were way under what reload manuals claims...

have compared results with a Friend's Oehler, and we found pretty much the same readings over each...so we called it good..

as far as pressure, the brass has made it past 5 reloads with primer pockets still tight.. so I called it good..

I use large rifle primers with this load...

I've shot a lot of deer with the .338-.378 Weatherby during our January rifle season the past 3 years. With a heavy barrel and high powered scope it is set up for long range shooting. Most deer shot with this rifle were past 400 yards. As for killing power, most deer ran for 20 yards or more before falling over. One well hit doe ran about 200 yards before going down even though the bullet went through the lungs and left a 2-inch exit hole. One of these days I plan on shooting a deer with my .50-140 with a wax filled, pure lead, paper patched 575-grain hollow point bullet at 1,650 fps.

The biggest I have ever used is a 375 H&H. It simply rolls the deer right there. I recovered one of the 270gr Hornady SP. It separated from the jacket. But the damage was, well, let's say, pretty graphic. A lot of wasted meat.

I have used a 350RM, 348 Win, 338 WM, and 338-06. You know the deer is not long for this earth with any of those cartridges.

I have shot one deer with a 44 mag pistol. I called that one in to about 5 yards. I think the muzzle blast may have helped tip it over.

I have owned a few 30's. H&H, 300 WM, 30-06 and currently a 308 on an AR platform. So far, I have just played with them at the range and never got around to hunting with them. Seems other people wanted them more than me. I would really like to use the 308 next week.

I just got a 9.3x64 Brenneke back from getting a facelift of Cerakote and a fresh coat of paint for the stock. Going to the range today to get it sighted in. I plan on using it next week during the late doe season along with the 308.

As stated before I have used a 22-250, 243, and 257 Roberts.

I have never owned any 6.5's, or 7mm's. Just too close to a 270 IMO.

I suspect we're talking about largest "sensible" caliber or cartridge. But let's face it, on the bigger end of the spectrum, since when does "sensible" come into play?

Since I have a 416 Rigby, that'd be the biggest cartridge that I'd hunt whitetails with. Of course it's loaded with 350gr. HotCors at around 2000fps. If I had a 700 Nitro Express, I'd have to kill a whitetail with it, just because.

David

Smallest rifle that I've taken deer with ... .223 Rem as it's the smallest chambering I own. Biggest I've taken deer with ... .470 NE double rifle as it's the largest chambering I own.

I don't think anything over 9,3x62 gains much more effectiveness as that round has worked superbly well for me. All of the bigger boys have yielded DRTs for me.

I shot a doe this year with a 200 Hornady out of a 338-06. Distance was about 130 yards broadside and no, you couldn't "eat right up to the hole"! That one will go back in the safe and wait for something a little bigger to use it on.

For those who want to use it I have no problem with a .50 BMG for deer if they pick their shots to minimize damage to the meat. If you don't get 4 good leg quarters and a couple of back straps out of a deer then you might want to rethink.

For myself I would much prefer not to shoot anything bigger than my old standby 30-06 as I don't find bigger rifles worth the trouble of learning to shoot well. 25 to 30 caliber in non-magnum cartridges is plenty for me!

I once shot a small doe in Wisconsin at the entire range of two inches using a 270 spire point in a .375 H&H magnum.....There was practically nothing left to attach a rope to drag it out of the woods

I went back to using the .25-06 after that ....

I find that somewhat hard to believe.

The last deer I shot with my 375 was a small 8 point at a range of 40 yards with a 250 grain Barnes "X" bullet, which took off the whole top third of the heart, but the exit hole was about 3 inches in diameter anyway you looked at.

Unless you found some form of fragmentation bullet, ther is no way in hell that 375 would have done that much damage.

well my 50 bmg is a blast

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I find that somewhat hard to believe.

The last deer I shot with my 375 was a small 8 point at a range of 40 yards with a 250 grain Barnes "X" bullet, which took off the whole top third of the heart, but the exit hole was about 3 inches in diameter anyway you looked at.

Unless you found some form of fragmentation bullet, ther is no way in hell that 375 would have done that much damage.

The next time you have a doe come up and stick it's nose on your muzzle to sniff and you then pull the trigger with it's head two inches away I'll just ask you to tie your rope on it's neck to drag it from the woods!....I can assure you that there won't be much to keep the rope from slipping off

anything bigger than 338WM/9.3x62 is just too much in my world.

but a .30-06 is the ideal.

Ah Yes, we tell the real story and therefore the real answer comes out.

When you made that fantastic shot, did you blow all four legs off that animal???????

I damn sure doubt it and tying the rope around a headless carcass is not the only way to drag something.

From your original post, it sounded like at the shot, the entire animal disinegrated.

Do you eat deer heads, sort of doubt it.

Blowing a does head off does not have a damn thing to do with the effectiveness or lack there of, of ANY DAMN CARTRIDGE.

I would be willing to bet, you would have achieved the same damn results with a 30-30/22 Hornet add infinitum.

Your original comment is still Bull Shit, at the range you listed, there are very few center fire rifles that would not have produced the same results.

It had not one GD thing to do with the caliber, it had to do with the range and the aiming point.

quote:

I shot a doe this year with a 200 Hornady out of a 338-06. Distance was about 130 yards broadside and no, you couldn't "eat right up to the hole"! That one will go back in the safe and wait for something a little bigger to use it on.

I have used the same bullet out of my 338-06's , I concur.

But now we are getting into bullet construction differences/performance.

quote:

I find that somewhat hard to believe

Once again bullet construction/performance differences.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Since these are last 2 shots today at 300 yards with a 25 mph wind, I think right now it is the 338RUM



You can eat right up to the hole.

That's the load.......I love my 338 RUM and it's great in Africa, but a waste of time in Oz...apart from the fun factor.

I use a 22-243 and a pack of 264 for my shooting here.........

quote:

If I had a 700 Nitro Express, I'd have to kill a whitetail with it, just because.

Hell yeah!
That's a bit like me shooting hares with my 303 Brit. Hey - that works!
Shoulder shots are best.
But I will be using my 25 now - might find use for those 85gr ballistic tips.

While many people think a .30 caliber is the smallest that should be used for deer, I personally don't see why one needs anything over .30 caliber for deer. That said, I can see where some calibers over .30 might not be overkill because of the design of the cartridge: e.g., .357 mag or .45 and .50 muzzle loaders, or the 45-70 government. Although I support the right of someone to use as large a caliber as they wish to deer hunt, I just think most of those over .30 caliber are overkill. My nickel's worth.

i used to think back in my teens years, when i was deer hunting i needed a big caliber. my first was a 30-06. now since i have been loading for about 25 years and studying ballistics and energy, things have changed. unless a want my impack shoots to be over 350 yards,. ill stick with my .260 and 7-08..ill leave the 30-06 to the guys that hunt elk size game..

I have taken Mule Deer with my .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, and .358 STA, simply because I had them in my hands Elk hunting when a nice Muley Buck presented itself. I also shoot a .416 Rem and Rigby and will probably load one of them up for next year, the "why" being why the hell not, if I draw in Colorado. Good shooting.

The smallest I've every used was a friend's 220 Swift to perform a "cranial lift" on a doe once. Normally I use a 6.5x55 but I do break out my 7mm Rem Mag depending on terrain/conditions I'll be hunting.

Come to think of it, I do have a .375 H&H that needs blooded....

The big stuff is for doe culling and just a "what the hell" thing. Or maybe "cause I can" kind of thing. You pick. Personally, for southern whitetails, anything .243 and up is good enough. For the northern giants, maybe a .270 or .284 something. I don't see a real need for a .308 anything for whitetails if you can place the bullet properly. A gut shot is a gut shot, regardless of caliber. The animal will die, but it'll be a while, probably. Most important, as alwasy, place the bullet well. It'll work.

Largest rifle cartridge I use is the 9.3x62mm Mauser, it's all my arthritis can take, but the largest I use year and out is a 6.5mm with 160 grain Hornaday bullets. Those long and heavy 6.5mm slugs just lay down deer with so much authority!!

LLS

Some one please explain to me, how willing they will be to see a goverment, any goverment regulate the MAXIMUM size caliber cartridge allowable for hunting deer????????????

Putting a limit on the MINIMUM size allowable is one thing.

How many people on this place want to be limited to 243 to 7mm-08 as the upper and lower limits of cartridges allowable for hunting deer?????

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Some one please explain to me, how willing they will be to see a goverment, any goverment regulate the MAXIMUM size caliber cartridge allowable for hunting deer????????????

Putting a limit on the MINIMUM size allowable is one thing.

How many people on this place want to be limited to 243 to 7mm-08 as the upper and lower limits of cartridges allowable for hunting deer?????

are you trying to make a point or just being a prick?

No Dick Lick, I am asking a question.

Do you not have the brains to understand that, evidently not.

Once again, HOW MANY on here would be in favor of a goverment, any goverment, stipulating that the only calibers suitable or legal for shooting deer would be limited to a specified range of calibers.

Now are you trying to make a point or just being ignorant?

I haven't hunted with a mountain howitzer, but I'd have to say it qualifies as the largest caliber I've heard of a deer being killed with.