Well it took 4 years and over 3000 rounds but the barrel on my Swift is starting to give up. Just came back from the range and the best it would do with it's prefered load was an inch for 3 shots. Now this rifle and load has always been less than 1/2" day in and day out from 100 degrees to minus 30 or better for 5 shots.

I have been shooting 40 grainers with blue dot all spring and summer for varmints with great accuracy and success ( thanks to Seafire for the info and data). Now that fall is getting closer I figured time to load some ammo go to the range and re-zero for yotes. One inch groups will do for this fall and winter but I think a rebarrel is in order come the spring.

Now I have a couple of choices I can stay with the swift just changing the twist to something faster 8,9 or 10 I could even go to a 7. This would allow me to to shoot some of the better BC bullets and really tap into the horsepower the case can provide not to mention reduced wind drift. Or I could go with the AI version with a faster twist giving me a case with much less taper a bit more powder and and less stretch( very attractive to me). Fireforming does not bother me at all, means more time shooting

The rifle is a Rem 700 VSSF that has a mag and action that is too short for the cartridge. It has been a single shot since day one. So it will remain a single shot after the rebarrel.

Dies would be the only question mark in the whole thing.

Opinions are most welcome

Thanks a bunch

Unless you just have to do something different, I'd stay with the Swift...but that's MHO. Lou

+1

I was looking at putting a Swift barrel on an FN action that currently is chambered in 270...

however, instead of a Swift AI, I'd consider a 22/243 AI...easier to get brass for it..

I have a 22/250 with a one in 7 twist... it is a long range shooter, thats for sure...but a plain old Savage with a one in 9 twist will do almost as well straight from the factory...

for longer life span on the barrel, you might consider Pac Nor, down here in Oregon... they will do the faster twist barrels, but they also make a polygonal twist in their barrels.. AR 15 technology of some sort...

it is supposed to dramatically increase barrel life.. I have one in a 22.250, with the regular one in 12 twist.. it has about 2000 rounds under its belt so far..

I wouldn't get rid of a barrel with just 3000 rounds thru it..becasue the groups are opening up to an inch...

I think you got good barrel life out of your Swift. If your wanting to shoot heavier bullets rebarrel to 6MM Remington or 243. You could have the barrel set back and rechambered, this might give you another 3000 rounds or so.

Make it a 22-250 AI. It'll do everything your Swift will with reasonable dies, long case life with little if any trimming. Gives you the option to shoot factory rounds should the need arise.

Just out of curiosity, how do you clean your barrel?

I have had several Swifts which I bought cheap because the owners thought them "shot out". They weren't; they were just metal fouled. It is tough to spot metal fouling without a bore scope...even then sometimes if you don't know for sure what you are looking for. And Swifts, driven at full speed, do have a tendency to foul more rapidly than slower velocity performers, as does anything else at over 4,000 f.p.s., including the .204 and the .17 Remington.

Longer bullets might shoot better out of your worn barrel than the short little spitzers that have little bearing surface.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Just out of curiosity, how do you clean your barrel?

I have had several Swifts which I bought cheap because the owners thought them "shot out". They weren't; they were just metal fouled. It is tough to spot metal fouling without a bore scope...even then sometimes if you don't know for sure what you are looking for. And Swifts, driven at full speed, do have a tendency to foul more rapidly than slower velocity performers, as does anything else at over 4,000 f.p.s., including the .204 and the .17 Remington.

I was going to ask the same thing. 3000 rounds really isn't that many, especially if a big number were Blue Dot. I've seen barrels that spit out clean patches and give them 30 minutes on an Outer's Foul Out and the rod is covered with copper. Some powder residues encapsulate the copper fouling to the extent that copper solvents become ineffective until you break through them.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Just out of curiosity, how do you clean your barrel?

I have had several Swifts which I bought cheap because the owners thought them "shot out". They weren't; they were just metal fouled. It is tough to spot metal fouling without a bore scope...even then sometimes if you don't know for sure what you are looking for. And Swifts, driven at full speed, do have a tendency to foul more rapidly than slower velocity performers, as does anything else at over 4,000 f.p.s., including the .204 and the .17 Remington.

I was going to ask the same thing. 3000 rounds really isn't that many, especially if a big number were Blue Dot. I've seen barrels that spit out clean patches and give them 30 minutes on an Outer's Foul Out and the rod is covered with copper. Some powder residues encapsulate the copper fouling to the extent that copper solvents become ineffective until you break through them.

Just went through this with a 36 year old .257 Roberts ,Ruger varmint.roger

I am quite methodic about barrel cleaning and have been for the last few years. In the swift I have been using Barnes CR-10 with nylon brushes in 24 cal as I find the .22's just a bit too small. I clean untill I have no coper discoloration on the patches.I do get a small bit of blue on the inside of the patch from the brass jag. I am going to have to say that I am getting pretty much every bit of copper out.

I have only run about 200 bluedot loads through the rifle with 40 grain btips or vmax's the rest have been 50-55 b tips and 52 a max's. Mostly 55 b tip's though,probably 75% with H-4831 ot H-414 with velocity's of 3600-3750 give or take.


however, instead of a Swift AI, I'd consider a 22/243 AI...easier to get brass for it.. 220 brass is not a problem here. I have about 400 virgin cases (Win) and a couple of hundred more loaded less than 5 times. When I am in a gun shop I always ask if they have any Swift if they do I buy some. I would rather have more than I need and have the luxury of being able to scrap marginal cases.



Make it a 22-250 AI. It'll do everything your Swift will with reasonable dies, long case life with little if any trimming. Gives you the option to shoot factory rounds should the need arise.


You can say the same for the AI Swift, the 22-250 AI is for the most part the ballistic twin of the Swift which ain't no small potatoes. I would have to fireform the brass to get what I could get out of the standard Swift case not quite as attractive as the 220 AI for me anyway but still an excellent suggestion.


I think you got good barrel life out of your Swift. If your wanting to shoot heavier bullets rebarrel to 6MM Remington or 243. You could have the barrel set back and rechambered, this might give you another 3000 rounds or so

Me too no shame at all for the barrel on this rifle. The VSSF is just way to short in action for 6mm Remmy,that if you ask me should have been on a long action to begin with. I am not knocking the .243 as it has a huge following and does what it was designed to do, but the 6mm Rem throated right and properly hand loaded is something of a beast compared to it's Wnchester cousin( my opinion though) My late father had a 6mm and he killed a lot of deer with it plus a couple of truck loads of yotes. I have no idea what his load was it was either IMR-4350 or IMR-4831 with 100 grainer's.



Thanks for all the reply's excellent to see all the quality replies here.

Much more thinking to do for sure

Hipster


One thing I think [wish] you should try is giving your barrel a VERY GOOD cleaning with J&B Bore Paste.

Then shoot it a little more, just in the intrest of science.

You might have to seat your bullets out a little farther for top accuracy.

i agree with N E 450 No2, get some jb bore paste down that barrel on a tight fitting patch. really give it a good scrub out. it can help smooth off the cracks cause by erosion. I mean really get into it, might pay to use a fresh patch of jbs every now and again. and when your done and got all the JB out dont be surprised if it takes a dozen shots to settle right down. that should give you another couple hundred rounds of accuracy.

throat could be worn a bit so seating the bullets out another 3 or 5 thou may help.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Hipster


One thing I think [wish] you should try is giving your barrel a VERY GOOD cleaning with J&B Bore Paste.

Then shoot it a little more, just in the intrest of science.

You might have to seat your bullets out a little farther for top accuracy.

Good advice. Before you throw in the towel, give his advice some thought, and try the JB to see if you can get more life out of the barrel.

Don

I picked up some J&B today and will give the barrel a good scrubbing. It might make a difference then again it might not. I can always use it on other rifles I have so I think it is a pretty good investment at 10 bucks even if it does not get the Swift to tighten up.

I am not going to hold my breath that it will shoot like it used too. Right now it will do accuracy wise for coyotes this fall and winter. Beyond that who knows. I am going to try a couple of different bullets too, ya just never know what might work out. I could always rebarrel this one with a faster twist to shoot some of the high BC bullets and pick up a new VSSF in 220 with the 14 twist for the 40-55 class of bullets.

I will let all of you know how the J&B paste works out once I finish and shoot the rifle for groups.

Thanks again everyone.

Hipster,

On JB Bore Paste, a related point.
For all barrels that are not lapped by the maker, I do a thorough scrub of the barrel with JB. It's my poor man's lapping of a factory barrel. I run a tight fitting patch loaded with JB through the bore 100 strokes. To keep the muzzle crown sharp, I do not let the patch exit the muzzle; I stop the jag before it exits the muzzle. In every case involving a dozen rifles, I've improved accuracy. I make sure the leade area of the chamber is well polished in the process.
For barrels that are lapped by the barrel maker, I just shoot them as is.

Don

If cleaning doesn't solve the problem, try some longer bullets that have more bearing contact as ireload2 stated. Or, if you've been using a boat-tail, you might try a flat base bullet. Just my nickels worth.

Barrel throat wear/erosion is not the only cause of groups opening up. The last inch or so of the barrel can also have opened up. That is the area where dust gets in. Apparently, evidence for this is an increasing number of 'flyers' in a group over time. Just a thought.

quote:

Well it took 4 years and over 3000 rounds but the barrel on my Swift is starting to give up. Just came back from the range and the best it would do with it's prefered load was an inch for 3 shots. Now this rifle and load has always been less than 1/2" day in and day out from 100 degrees to minus 30 or better for 5 shots.

I've had several rifles that started to give up shooting for me around the 2-3k mark, a fix for another thousand or so has been to go to a longer bullet(longer bearing surface) and chase the rifling, one 223 has had the magazine box lengthened at around 2500 rounds and it has now fired about 6k, looks like I've about got the good out of this stock savage barrel.

quote:

... a fix for another thousand or so has been to go to a longer bullet and chase the rifling, ...

Would this be true of any rifle that does not group too well?
Does it work with only the longer bullets (without seating them further out)?

swheeler, in your case, was that without any work to the muzzle end?

Hipster, may I ask, how would you rate your swift compared to say, the 22-250? Have you tried it with lower pressure loads? (I ask because I have this No.4 Enfield and a .223 caliber barrel ... and the 303 British case is a virtual rimmed Swift and ..... But that barrel I have is a bit short).

quote:

Would this be true of any rifle that does not group too well?
Does it work with only the longer bullets (without seating them further out)?

swheeler, in your case, was that without any work to the muzzle end?

To answer your first question, not all inaccuracy is caused by throat errosion, so NO.
Second question, "chasing the rifling" is a slang term used to describe seating the bullet out further to keep the jump the same as the throat errodes, after you get to a point you need a longer bullet to keep enough bullet in the neck. I noticed that Hipster made no reference to doing this, and like it or not the throat on any rifle errodes every single time you pull the trigger.
Question 3; yes- I did nothing except chase the rifling, then you finally get to a point where the throat has erroded so badly, length, dia and finish, that the barrel is done for. I always get a chuckle out of the cyber space shooters that have put 20k rounds through their 300 magnum and it still shoots as fast and shoots the same 1/2 inch groups it always did! roll up the pant legs

quote:

Hipster, may I ask, how would you rate your swift compared to say, the 22-250? Have you tried it with lower pressure loads? (I ask because I have this No.4 Enfield and a .223 caliber barrel ... and the 303 British case is a virtual rimmed Swift and ..... But that barrel I have is a bit short).

Well I would have to say I rate them both in two different ways. If you are shooting factory ammo only, the 22-250 wins hands down. Any factory swift ammo I have shot has not excited me it was slow and inaccurate.
Now if you are loading your own then the Swift takes the prize and does so with little problems. I feel that it is a step above the 22-250 when handloading. I tried loading down 3300 3400 3500 3600 hundred and so on. Accuracy was poor. This rifle had a definate like for certan speeds depending on bullet weight for best groups. With 40 grain bullets Bt or Vmax was well over 4000 ( I won't post actual measured speeds) With 50 grain Bt's or 52 amax Just a skitch over 4000 worked well. The rifle shot the very best though with 55 Btip's at 3600-3750 with 2 different powders. I went higher but groups were pretty much the same and cases stretched more and the change in trajectory did not equal out to the extra wear on the barrel. Having a 14 twist the 55 was the longest bullet this rifle would shoot.

Shooting tomorrow night so I will let you all know how your advice worked out. Scrubbed throughly with J&b and is squeaky clean Loading tonight boat tails and some flat bases. I will shoot some groups and let you all know the results in the next couple of days.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice.

quote:

Having a 14 twist the 55 was the longest bullet this rifle would shoot.

the 70 grain Speer is .040 shorter than the 55 v-max, but because of the location of the major dia on the ogive,.125" further forward you can take up 1/8 inch of throat erosion and have the same OAL. Speer shows this bullet being loaded in a 16" twist swift.

Sorry fellow shooters that I am a bit tardy posting a follow up on the Swift.

Well I shot at 200 yards in excellent conditions. I figured that 100 might not give me the most information on accuracy. Accuracy for 5 shot groups was very consistant. Group sizes were 3". I would like to be able to blame the large groups on my shooting but I can't. I shot 2 groups with my 260 Rem both under 1" at 200 and 3 with one of my 06's all three 1-1/2" or under, had a 1" in the works but pulled the last one.

I am not getting too stressed over it I was hoping to get through this winter with the rifle for yotes before a rebarrel. Oh well.... the best laid plans of mice and men I guess.

Thanks again to everyone who offered advice and experence.

Hey Hipster, Are you going to re-barrel or sell it to your best buddy "shootaway"?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Hipster, Are you going to re-barrel or sell it to your best buddy "shootaway"?

Good one you sure know how to Have not seen him around much almost not at all. Yes I think a re-barrel is in in my future but with Hunting season and the chubby fellow with the white beard and the red suit following soon after throws a wrench into this year, unless it picks up a bit and I can log some good overtime. Still musing on standard 220 or the AI version based on an 8 twist for 75 or 80 a max's to give me better numbers in windage versus the 50-55 class.

Ya mean something like this?



exceptin' this one is only a 22.250, and only shoots the 80 grain A Maxes at 3300 fps...

Or this boring little old standard 243 Ruger?

quote:

exceptin' this one is only a 22.250, and only shoots the 80 grain A Maxes at 3300 fps...

Ya just had to post those pics them 80 stuffed in them 22-250 cases just look so sexy AHHHHHHHHHHHH.......... how much is a kidney going for these days? you can live with only one right? Now I need to go for a walk to wind down after seeing " them rifles"

D.

I thought you liked that rifle....

my bad...

It would be interesting if you could try some 228 bullets. They might just overcome the throat erosion effects for another season. If I can stabilize 60gr bullets in a 16" twist hornet ..... Just a thought! In the name of science!

80 grain A Max...

33.3 grains of IMR 4064

3300 fps..




Hipster.... they're calling your name....

quote:

80 grain A Max...

Hey .... Those things look real good!

Hipster,

If your considering a faster twist for a full power .224" keep in mind that what with the 55 and 58 gr bullets now made in 6mm that it covers what a fast twist .224" could do.

The report should be about the same and in theory the barrel life better. I would go with the 243.

Its true that the so called "improved" chambers extend our hobby so if you want one then...

Having been there and done that with such chambers in rimmed, rimless and belted I am very happy with the 243 and that shoots a wide range of bullets. There are many more bullet choices in 6mm over .224".

In any case have fun.

several friends and myself played with the .22cheetah several years ago. couldn't get any of them to shoot very well.(.22-.243).