OK, "24" is over now. We can now continue

quote:

For clarification for those who appreciate such things, I have as much experience or more than anyone in this discussion in not hunting deer with a 223.

Kaboom :You old self confessed flock shooter.

Remember you told us that you can't shoot for sh#t. .

I love it. "I have no experience but I do have an opinion on my lack of experience". You and you buddy Hotsh#t, the 1,000 deerslayer that doesn't know sh#t about anatomy are priceless and comical. So elementary and PURE FANTASY... but very funny please continue.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

For clarification for those who appreciate such things, I have as much experience or more than anyone in this discussion in not hunting deer with a 223.

Kaboom :You old self confessed flock shooter.

Remember you told us that you can't shoot for sh#t. .

I love it. "I have no experience but I do have an opinion on my lack of experience". You and you buddy Hotsh#t, the 1,000 deerslayer that doesn't know sh#t about anatomy are priceless and comical. So elementary and PURE FANTASY... but very funny please continue.

Greetings, A.H. I was wondering where you were holed up. I'm glad to make your day. At your service.

Maybe you'll be pleased to read that because of your influence, I have cleaned up my act. No more flock shooting for me. I got me a great shooting 308 that really has boosted my confidence. Last trip to Texas it was 8 shots, and 7 dead hogs. Sorry, I missed one as it was running through the woods, but I nailed its pal first, and when the 2nd one stopped to look back, I got it too, but on the second. Scuzze me, but I got excited again.

I ain't admitting how many deer I shot, because the statute of limitations hasn't run yet. But it was one shot per deer.

Those 165 gr Accubonds are fantastic. Unbelievable accuracy for factory stuff. Really, that Nosler ammo is the best factory ammo I have ever shot, and they thump hogs. Try some, you'll like the results.

Gotta love the redneck learning curve. I'm out there, and plan more of it.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1621043/m/8221048321

KB

Kaboom

Seriously, it is good to see that you have stopped flock shooting. Good on ya!!!!

Sounds also that you have found a shooter that works for you and gives you confidence. Good on ya, again!!!!

Next step, after a lot more practice with that .308............ is a step up to the .223!!!!!!!

I wouldn't have called it flock shooting, but call it what ya want. In that situation you are talking about, deer were running everywhere, and sure I got excited, and unfortunately I found only one of them.

But not this last trip. I did see lottzz of deer though, but not at the same time, running amuck.

BTW, I am thinking of a 243. But I probably should pass. Why neglect a good thing that works? And the barrel isn't yet broke in.

I talked to my brother yesterday, and he says the farm is beginning to be over-run with wild hogs, and he doesn't hunt anymore. I mentioned this prediciment to my Texas buddies, and they want to accompany me on a trip to thin um out. Sounds like fun to me.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
I don't care if you guys have an opinion. And you don't seem to care that the person that started this thread didn't ask for yours.

I don't think we've heard yours. Are you just here to scrap with Kabluey?

I just think it's more than a little rude for a few to crash a thread just to crap all over it cuz they think it's fun. If you want to bash the 223 why don't you start your own thread. I'm sure it will be as popular as Air America. You'll have to log in under multiple personalities just to keep your topic alive. Then again, that wouldn't be as much fun as copping a squat in someone else's living room. would it?

In case you've forgot:
Who has taken what medium game (hogs deer ect) with what .223 load? Note I am NOT asking an ETHICAL question. I just want to know whats been done, and pics are great.

I've had nothing but one shot quick kills with the 223 on deer.

IMO, anytime you breech the subject of taking medium size game with a 223, you've crossed into an ethics question. It's unavoidable, as evidenced by the numbers of posts each time it is mentioned. Those who pretend it isn't, and try to sanitize it - well that's your problem.

KB

The funny thing is, the more KB posts, the more I want to build 223s for deer hunting. It's unavoidable.

I'm sure you and your customers will get along fine, and you'll have plenty of business. Good luck with that. Remember -- fast twist.

KB

Kabluewy---What part of Texas you hunting? San Angelo area here.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
IMO, anytime you breech the subject of taking medium size game with a 223, you've crossed into an ethics question. It's unavoidable, as evidenced by the numbers of posts each time it is mentioned. Those who pretend it isn't, and try to sanitize it - well that's your problem.

KB

Not true KB. I see a few people who gave thier actual experience with the round but I mainly see trolling here. To say that is unavoidable just isn't true. You and the others can control your actions if you try a little harder.

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it right to go on a crusade anytime you see it. These forums work on honor and curtisey. Please show some and I will return the favor.

The last time this came up you and I both greatly contributed to the circus it became. I will try harder not to let that happen again.

The original question: Who has taken what medium game (hogs deer ect) with what .223 load? Note I am NOT asking an ETHICAL question. I just want to know whats been done, and pics are great.

My answer is: I have and it works great as long as you wait for the right shot and take your time. It's not the ultimate cartridge but it will cleanly take deer size animals. The bullets I have used with much success are the 60gr Nosler Partition and the 62gr Barnes TSX. I much prefer the Barnes, not that it kills better but my rifles seem to like them better. My kill ratio is 100% with the cartidge. John Barness once wrote he thought a shooter should hold his shots within 200yds when using the .223Rem on deer. I've never pushed the distance envelope with this cartridge but would guess his comments are spot on. Usually when I hunt with mine I pick a spot where the shooting lanes aren't very long anyway.



Terry

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
In the hands of a good marksman the 223 is a very effective medium game getter.

If you're not that good of shot, you better pack a bigger rifle.

Obviously an attempt to have the Stupidest post in the thread. But as long as teenScum, gibson and perry are posting, he can only get a tie.
-----

Super Premium Bullets that DO NOT EXIT are the Bullets to use!!! perry really stepped in it there.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

The last time this came up you and I both greatly contributed to the circus it became. I will try harder not to let that happen again.

Terry

Ditto, but you started it. naner, naner, naner.

BTW, nice post. Honestly, I tried, and managed to hold off posting for a long time.

I'm wondering - does actually witnessing the taking (or failure to take) of deer with a 223 count, or is this club limited to those who pulled the trigger? Or just those who pulled the trigger and conveniently forget about the failures?

Once, I actually gave my experience gained through personal observation, and it was quickly dismissed. I figured it was because it was contrary to what ya'll wanted to hear.

So, it seems to me that the way this discussion is set up is so to exclude detractors and opposition, and it's pretty obvious ya'll don't want to hear it. Looks to me like it's a mutual admiration club - you show me pictures of your AH, and I'll show you pictures of mine. If it's behind closed doors, it's OK kinda club. At best an affirmation club, and righteous exclusion club.

Hey, that's ok with me. I won't step on your twinkie anymore. Have fun.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
IMO, anytime you breech the subject of taking medium size game with a 223, you've crossed into an ethics question. It's unavoidable, as evidenced by the numbers of posts each time it is mentioned. Those who pretend it isn't, and try to sanitize it - well that's your problem.

KB

Absofrigginglutely.

quote:

I just think it's more than a little rude for a few to crash a thread just to crap all over it cuz they think it's fun. If you want to bash the 223 why don't you start your own thread

In the words of one of my heros, "What makes you think you can tell me where and when I'm allowed to post?" Strange coming from a guy who recently posted that people don't come to AR to be told what to do...(gunmaker)

quote:

The funny thing is, the more KB posts, the more I want to build 223s for deer hunting. It's unavoidable.

gunmaker

gunmaker! What a great idea you've blundered into! It must be a little slow around the shop since you have so much time to post. This idea could make you rich and I'll help!

Here's what you do:

You already have your target market identified; .223 deer shooters. Good!

Now, either start a new company or change the name of your existing company (best idea because this is gonna be huge), to:

TADA!

Mayberry Arms Manufacturing.

Develop an new wildcat based on the .223 Remington with even less powder capacity. This undoubtably will be irresistible to your target market from what I've seen here. You could promote it as "Even more challenging in the hands of an expert!"


The new chambering will be called:

TADA!

The 5.56 mm GI, or .223 GI.......Goober Improved.


And lastly, you'll need an ad campaign complete with a spokesman. And who better than this guy:





I'll bet you get so busy building rifles that you'll have to stop following Kabluewy around like something he accidentally stepped in around a corral!

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
"What makes you think you can tell me where and when I'm allowed to post?"

Never told you that you couldn't post here. Also never said you couldn't be rude. You freely make those choices all by your self.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
you show me pictures of your AH, and I'll show you pictures of mine.

That's real classy.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
The funny thing is, the more KB posts, the more I want to build 223s for deer hunting. It's unavoidable.

Funny how that works isn't it..
Until this thread and the link below I haven't gave building a fast twist .22 cal. much thought..
While I have a .223 model 7 Rem I think I'll go with my 22-250 and either 62 gr. Win. PP or 53 gr. TSX's.. If my 1:14 will stabilize the above bullets I won't need to go with a fast twist..
THREAD from 24 Hr. Campfire
There or photo's of some major trophies taken in this thread with both the 22-250 and the .22 Swift..enjoy!
________________________________________________________________________

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...php/topics/3800457/3
__________________________________________________________________________

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
The funny thing is, the more KB posts, the more I want to build 223s for deer hunting. It's unavoidable.

Funny how that works isn't it..
Until this thread and the link below I haven't gave building a fast twist .22 cal. much thought..
While I have a .223 model 7 Rem I think I'll go with my 22-250 and either 62 gr. Win. PP or 53 gr. TSX's.. If my 1:14 will stabilize the above bullets I won't need to go with a fast twist..
THREAD from 24 Hr. Campfire
There or photo's of some major trophies taken in this thread with both the 22-250 and the .22 Swift..enjoy!
________________________________________________________________________

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...php/topics/3800457/3
__________________________________________________________________________

Low Wall

I have a Rem 700 VSSF in 22-250 with a 1:14 twist rate and have used that 53 gr. TSX successfully on deer. In fact my longest shot with a .22 centerfire was made with that bullet at 345 yards that was lazered. I found the accuracty to be just a whisper less than the Nosler BT's but still ok. I was shooting in the .4-.5's with the NBT and I think that the
TSX moved that out to .7-1.0 but I'm not exactly sure.

I wasn't able to find the bullet after hitting the deer as it was a pass through but he did go right down dead with no movement at all. My son was with me and couldn't believe that shot. My response was "Just lots of experience" to which he almost fell over laughing.

I would think that the TSX in 53 gr. would work for you with your shooter. I haven't seen too many of these bullets on the shelves but then again I haven't seen a lot of bullets on the shelves lately. Good luck.

If you don't want rude remarks made about using a varmint rifle for something it was not intended, then quit opening up these threads.

The problem as I see it is the guys buy their little tacticool rifles and take them to the dump so's they can go pop pop pop and after they've dystroyed enough phone books, they ask themselves the question, "Wonder if I can kill something with this?" And some brain trust sez "if it'll kill a man, it'll kill a deer." Ignoring the fact that the varmint round has a piss poor track record as a combat round. And so, they come in here and ask.

The responsible hunters in here have seen so many of these threads that it's understandable that we can't take them too serious. You see, the poster is not really wanting information, he is wanting blanket endorsement.

When I lived in WV, I knew a number of skilled hunters that used the .222 and .223 for killing our 100# deer. They are good hunters and work well within the limits of their cartridges. They would never try shots at the extended ranges some of the posters in here claim. They are using accurate, bolt rifles that they have been shooting for years. Not some spray and pray tacticool POS which is what most of the folks asking the question have.

Funny how all of you proponents of the .223 Remington on deer-sized game have more stories and pictures about killing deer with other cartridges like the 22-250 and the Swift.

Kinda like a NASCAR driver saying how great the factory Taurus is for racing, but driving one that's much faster.

TEANCUM,
What's your favorite powder for the 53 gr. TSX in your 22-250?
I have had good luck with H414 in the past but it has been 17 years since I have done much coyote and wolf hunting due to work.. Retired this fall so have plenty of time to get back to my passion..
Another .223 AR Classic thread below.. Lots of .223 kills there eh...
____________________________________________________________________________

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6711043/m/8491097511
_____________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for the link Low Wall!

I had as much fun reading the posts there as I've had here!

I haven't laughed as much in a year as I have the last few days with this thread and carpetman1's 25ACP thread!

My cold's almost gone. I guess laughter IS the best medicine

quote:

by wasbeeman:
If you don't want rude remarks made about using a varmint rifle for something it was not intended, then quit opening up these threads.

So the rudeness isn't the fault of the person being rude?

quote:

by wasbeeman:
The responsible hunters in here.....

I knew a number of skilled hunters that used the .222 and .223 for killing our 100# deer. They are good hunters and work well within the limits of their cartridges. They would never try shots at the extended ranges some of the posters in here claim.

Are these guys the responsible hunters you speak of?
I think being a responsible hunter has very little to do with the rifle they are using and more to do with the consistent results of said rifle in each individual situation.

quote:

by wasbeeman:
Not some spray and pray tacticool POS which is what most of the folks asking the question have.

Here's my tacticool rifle I built. It's on top of a tanned hide from an elk I shot from around 475. The bullet blasted through the heart and landed in the foreleg on the off side.

I can't believe that last thread went 18 pages.


With the looks of that close-quarters red dot scope on your bad boy there, I can believe 475.......feet

I never said I shot the elk with that rifle.
The 223 I've used on deer is a bolt gun that's not as accurate as my space gun.
Since I don't shoot a high power 5 times a week anymore, I wouldn't take an extended shot now.
Is that responsible?

Hey James,

Is your signature a link to your shop?

I'm only getting a pencil sketch.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Ok, let's ask this question; just where do we draw the line (cartridge wise) that seperates the "goobers" from the real hunters...the 30 RUM?


Larry Gibson

Absolutely not, Larry and this is the whole point.

If you look at any of the tables given, whether it be the TI or the OGW formula, it simply has to do with physics and terminal ballistics. If you choose the cartridge with the minimum requirements according to the data for deer, it would be the .243 Win and a 95 or 100 grain bullet. This takes into consideration marksmanship as well. All shots are assumed to be placed in the vital area of the animal. Legality has nothing to do with it and adverse opinions are not moot.

A more powerful cartridge does not make you more of a hunter than the next, but choosing one minimizing the chance for losing an animal or making game suffer needlessly makes you less of a "goober"

My gawd, I wonder how our forfathers killed any game without "data, tables or computers"? I'm sorry rcamugalia but your relience on "data, tables, formulas, etc., add nauseum doesn't match reality. Since, in your last post to me, you posted all the big game you've killed with a .223 it is obvious you have lots of experience as in none.

Yes experience does count BTW because regardless of what you and your data, tables, formulas and computations say the .223 does indeed kill deer very nicely. Why don't you go try killing a deer with a .223 some time and get some real first hand knowledge and then come back.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
So the rudeness isn't the fault of the person being rude?

Now that you've temporarily quit being so rude, and the personal attacks, you're starting to make sense, even logical. Not that I agree with you, but that's besides the point.

And before you point out that I was rude as well, I take full responsibility for being rude to you and others. I can be offended by personal insults, and attacks, and in such case yes I can be very rude, and I've been holding back.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Hey James,

Is your signature a link to your shop?

I'm only getting a pencil sketch.

That's my contact info.

quote:

Why don't you go try killing a deer with a .223 some time and get some real first hand knowledge and then come back.

Because I own deer rifles. I use my prarie dog rifle for prarie dogs.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
regardless of what you and your data, tables, formulas and computations say the .223 does indeed kill deer very nicely. Why don't you go try killing a deer with a .223 some time and get some real first hand knowledge and then come back.
Larry Gibson

Why, when we have perfectly good real deer rifles? For a lark, for the brag of it? I see no point, especially since I consider it unethical. Also, I have little doubt that I could regularly kill deer with a 223, but I don't need to, and I especially don't like long tracking jobs after the shot, and more especially when there is little blood trail, as can be expected from a 223.

Saying the 223 is an adequate deer rifle is like saying a jet ski is a bass boat, and then going out and catching bass off the damn thing to prove a point.

KB

After thinking about my reply, I realize that must sound strange to you.

I'm learning a lot on this thread but I can't figure out how to get that "originally posted by.." deal on my quotes.

Help

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I'm learning a lot on this thread but I can't figure out how to get that "originally posted by.." deal on my quotes.

Help

I don't know either. All I do is click on the reply with quote button in the lower right corner, and it pops up automatically for me, as it did on this quote from you.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I'm learning a lot on this thread but I can't figure out how to get that "originally posted by.." deal on my quotes.

Help

I don't know either. All I do is click on the reply with quote button in the lower right corner, and it pops up automatically for me, as it did on this quote from you.

KB

What happens if you just want to quote a snippet from a post?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Help

click on the reply with quote button in the lower right corner.
KB

What happens if you just want to quote a snippet from a post?

As I did in this post, again click on the quote button, then highlight the parts you want to delete - then delete - condense - post.

If you want to post multiple quotes:

First - open word while having AR open and signed in too. Go to the quote button as before, then cut the entire quote and paste to word. Then just cancel the post, and go to the next place you would like to quote, click the quote button again, and cut/paste the entire quote to word. You can cut/paste to word as many quotes as you want. Just space down and tag them on below the previous cut/paste.

On the last quote you have clicked in AR, you can choose to cut/paste the stuff in word back to the post in AR, and edit there, or you can edit in word, then paste it back to AR. Either way or combo that works best for you.

At this point, you'll have multiple edited quotes and your comments. You can also edit your posts later.

Hope that helps. Now you can get really rambo with these guys.

KB

Thanks KB!

Thanks for standing by while I got de-gooberized guys. You probably needed a break anyway.

Now, put up your dukes!

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
TEANCUM,
What's your favorite powder for the 53 gr. TSX in your 22-250?
I have had good luck with H414 in the past but it has been 17 years since I have done much coyote and wolf hunting due to work.. Retired this fall so have plenty of time to get back to my passion..
Another .223 AR Classic thread below.. Lots of .223 kills there eh...
____________________________________________________________________________

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6711043/m/8491097511
_____________________________________________________________________________

I'm using Varget mainly because it is an Extreme Powder put out by Hodgdon, in that it is NOT temperature sensitive. That whole line of Extreme Powders has that attribute. Our hunting conditions here can go from 10 to 100 degrees in the pursuit of varmints.

I'm using 37.5 gr. with 50-53 gr. bullets with wonderful accuracy. Of course, as you know, your shooter is different than mine and adjust accordingly. Good luck

Thanks!
I have plenty of Varget..

Meanwhile.....



Somewhere.....



Wayfaring Stranger sits, intemittently checking the thread, laughing insanely like Bill Murray in Caddy Shack (Carl) while he sticks .223 rounds into the arses of plastic explosives shaped like jackalope...