I have come to the conclusion that the 115gr Partitions will not shoot accurately in my M700. I was trying the 115's due to an article I read from Russell Thornsberry in which he raved about the Partition's performance on deer.
I have noticed that some reloaders prefer 110-115gr TSX's or 110gr Accubond's. Obviously each rifle has a preference for bullet/powder combinations, but I was wondering which of the two bullets might perform as well as or better than those 115 Partitions that Mr. Thornsberry wrote about?

TSX and Accubond have been excellent for me on deer in 25cal. Shots range from 60yrds to 150yrds.

TSX accounts for about 4 kills. All pass thru. Excellent performance.

13 additional were with the 110gr Accubond. All had excellent performance and were 1 shot kills. Longest distance run after being shot was 60yrds. All were pass thru but one. Recovered bullet was perfect mushroom and retained 82% of weight (designed to shed a bit of weight).

I did recover 1 TSX but it was a 30-06 168gr. Perfect mushrooma nd 99.9% weight retention.

For plain ol deer hunting I use the 110AB and not the TSX simply because of price. I like to shoot and both bullets are very accurate and very good on game.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
I have come to the conclusion that the 115gr Partitions will not shoot accurately in my M700. I was trying the 115's due to an article I read from Russell Thornsberry in which he raved about the Partition's performance on deer.
I have noticed that some reloaders prefer 110-115gr TSX's or 110gr Accubond's. Obviously each rifle has a preference for bullet/powder combinations, but I was wondering which of the two bullets might perform as well as or better than those 115 Partitions that Mr. Thornsberry wrote about?

On several points:

1. Accuracy for a hunting bullet should be scrutinized in light of the terminal performance of the bullet. Nosler partitions (while I'm not a fan) have among the highest reputations in the hunting business bar none! One might consider that 1.5" groups is totally adequate for hunting bullets (yes....you didn't say what accuracy you was getting). 1.5" groups still will place your bullet to within 2.25 inches all the way to 300 yards.....a darn long ways! Frankly, I don't personally know any shooter that can shoot that good!

2. Good old core-lokts have killed more deer than you and I together can shake a stick at!!! Any bonded bullet is (probably) better than the core-lokts so I'd use any bonded bullet in total confidence that it's up to the task.....and yes, you just might find one that shoots tighter groups than the partitions!

3. You didn't ask but here's my recommendation.....look to Hornady's 120 HP.....good accuracy and possibly the best terminal performance a going!

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I've never seen the need for premium bullets on whitetailed deer. Remington 100gr Core-Lokts are both accurate and deadly on thin skinned game in any of my 25-06's for the last 40 years.

I'd use a premium bullet if I could shoot through a tree with them and still kill the deer. None were able to do so. So I don't see the rationale for using premiums on deer. Pennsylvania wasn't named Penn's Woods for nothing.

To clarify my request a little better, I am looking to this 25-06 as an open plains, muledeer rifle, and not for woods hunting.

Regarding accuracy of the Noslers, it is pretty inconsistant grouping of both factory Federals and handloads with H4831,RL22, IMR4350, IMR7828, as compared to Sierra GK 117's that has me concluding to move on. (not that there are any flys on the Sierra's) If I could get a consistant 1.5" I might be satified, but I can't get that, except with the Sierra's which shoot very well indeed.
I usually prefer heavy for caliber bullets for my reloads, but do acknowledge that new bullet designs have advantages for toughness in lighter weights. Not being familiar with the 25's performance of game, I am relying on experiences I see on the internet (I know its dangerous cause everyone has sub MOA rifles), and trying to read some consensis into the posts and articles

Try some Accubonds. If they don't shoot, I would stay with the Game Kings.

what onefunzr2 said right on. Vapodog right on too. I have read on these boards for years that a .243 is marginal at best and if used strictly use premium bullets. If .243 is marginal, it goes without saying that something even smaller(.222 .223 etc) would never work. Bullet placement is everything. The cheap Winchester bulk packed which is similar to a Core Lokt work fine. 25-06 would be stepping up to a magnum in comparison. Hit em right and you get em. Hit em wrong and you cripple and lose them.

quote:

Not being familiar with the 25's performance of game, I am relying on experiences I see on the internet

I've used the .25-06 and the .257 Roberts for a long time now and can assure you that these "1/4 bores" will kill deer as well as any other cartridge. Further the 100 grain to 120 grain bullets are all extremely deadly on deer. (assuming a non target designed bullet)

I like premiums but have posted many times that their advantages are small indeed.

I might also add that a .25-06 that won't hold 1.5" groups is a rare gun.....possibly some floating of the barrel or glass bedding is in order. Your gun should hold better than that!

quote:

I've used the .25-06 and the .257 Roberts for a long time now and can assure you that these "1/4 bores" will kill deer as well as any other cartridge.

May I add.....this is an area I completely disagree with Hot Core.....IMO the .25 and .264 calibers are better than larger calibers for deer hunting.....no matter how big one goes. My success with the smaller calibers is far better than anything I've ever done with .270 to .375 H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
To clarify my request a little better, I am looking to this 25-06 as an open plains, muledeer rifle, and not for woods hunting.

Regarding accuracy of the Noslers, it is pretty inconsistant grouping of both factory Federals and handloads with H4831,RL22, IMR4350, IMR7828,

Westernmassman:
I had the same problem with my 257AI...just didn't like partitions. Wound up using the 120gr Speer Hot Core and the 120gr Hornady HP. Both have performed perfectly on deer up close and out to about 350yds.

Count me as another one who doesn't think premiums are needed for deer.

But of the 2 bullets you mentioned, I'd pick the Accubond due to lower costs. Either would likely perform well.

If you go with the TTSX go with the 100grn. That 100grn TTSX is just a tad longer than the 117grn Hornadys spbt interlocts.

My .257 AI has been my favorite deer, pronghorn, and sheep rifle for the past 30 years. I've averaged a deer (mule or whitetail) and an antelope every year, plus 4 bighorn rams, a Dall ram, a mountain caribou, a wolverine, and a large 6 pt bull elk with it. Most, including all the sheep, the caribou, and the elk were one shot DRT kills.

The bullets that I used were 117 gr Sierra GameKings and 120 gr Hornady HP's. Shot distances ranged from about 40 yds to 288 yds. Bullet performance was about equal, with most (not the elk) being "behind the shoulder" pass throughs.

Millions of deer have been killed with standard cup and core bullets. They work very well. The important thing is accuracy and bullet placement.

I have nothing against premium bullets, I load TSX bullets in my .300 Wby and my .375 RUM, and Accubonds in my 7mm Rem mag because they are accurate and they are intended primarily for elk and larger game, and the tips of these bullets in the magazine don't deform under recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
To clarify my request a little better, I am looking to this 25-06 as an open plains, muledeer rifle, and not for woods hunting.

Regarding accuracy of the Noslers, it is pretty inconsistant grouping of both factory Federals and handloads with H4831,RL22, IMR4350, IMR7828, as compared to Sierra GK 117's that has me concluding to move on. (not that there are any flys on the Sierra's) If I could get a consistant 1.5" I might be satified, but I can't get that, except with the Sierra's which shoot very well indeed.
I usually prefer heavy for caliber bullets for my reloads, but do acknowledge that new bullet designs have advantages for toughness in lighter weights. Not being familiar with the 25's performance of game, I am relying on experiences I see on the internet (I know its dangerous cause everyone has sub MOA rifles), and trying to read some consensis into the posts and articles

I was having some probs too with a Rem 700 25-06 barrel

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6711043/m/8791048621

I'd like to know more about the Sierra 117gr SBT load you worked up if ya don't mind?

I still haven't had a chance to roll a few

I've heard only great things about that bullet and deer

Thanks and Good Luck!

Late-Bloomer:
I am by no stretch of the imagination, experienced with the 25-06. But so far here is what I know about MY Remington 700. It showed a marked preference for Sierra 117's in the Federal factory loads, so when I decided that the Noslers were a lost cause I decided to focus on another combo. Until I get my hands on some other bullets, I decided to load up some 117 Sierra's and see if there was a powder preference starting with moderate loads.
Yesterday I tried 4 powders I had on hand about 4 grains off book max: IMR7828,RL22, H4831, and IMR4350 with the Sierra's. I am using Federal cases, .002 runout, CCI primers, and C.O.L. of 3.150, which puts them about .015 off the lands in MY rifle.
Shooting 5 shot groups I got 1 3/8" with 7828, 1 1/4" with RL22, 1 1/2" with 4831, and 7/8" with IMR 4350. (I will say that RL22 and H4831 shot 4 under 7/8" with one flier). The IMR 4350 load was only 44.0 grains, so who knows what will happen with stouter loads.
So, I am going to focus on IMR4350 , pull out the chrony, and start ramping up towards book max.
I bought this particular M700BDL used for under $400 because I wanted the Leupold 3X9 VXII for my 7mag. I planned to trade the rifle (95% condition) because I had no interest in the 25-06. Decided to shoot it, read about it on the internet, and became interested in trying to make it into my goto open plains deer hunting rifle. I have glas-bedded the tip and recoil lug. It has a crappy trigger pull and I haven't been able to remove the creep yet, and may see if I can drop it off at Ilion to have a newer trigger installed.
Hopefully in a couple of months I will have this rifle sorted out.
Good Luck to you too!

I believe about 49gr of IMR4350 and 117gr bullets has been Sierra's accuracy load for the 25/06 for some time.

Vapodog--You disagree with Hot Core???? A new thing??

I'v used most brands in my 25-06 serria and hornady worked best for me. I have never had any luck with nosler they just don't seam to group as well or as accurately as serria or hornady. BUT thats just me

Westernmassman_

I appreciate all the details very kind of ya brother!

I hope to try IMR 4350 and 117gr Sierra's real soon and if that don't do it then I'll give the H4831 a try!

But as "olarmy" pointed out and a few other folk on my threads 49gr of IMR 4350 is a magic load...all we can do is work up and try!

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Vapodog--You disagree with Hot Core???? A new thing??

No, we disagree on a few things. I do respect his opinion though (even when he is WRONG ).

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Vapodog--You disagree with Hot Core???? A new thing??

No, we disagree on a few things. I do respect his opinion though (even when he is WRONG ).

Oh Yea?????.....well take this!

There.....I body slammed ya!

Just got back from the range after testing a new .25-06 I made for a friends wife.....

I used one of the elcheapo mauser barrels from Brownells but I cut off the thread and rethreaded it for a M-70 push feed and then recontoured it to featherweight contour. Rechambering and tighten the barrel and off to the range with some 100 grain ballistic tips ahead of IMR-4350 powder.

First groups were terrible....over 2"!!

Off with the barreled action and free floated the barrel and back to shooting again.....

The next five shots (I'm still testing at 50 yards) go into a group the size of a dime!

I wish all my rifles were this easy to get "hunting worthy"

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...mauser barrels ...for a M-70 ... and tighten the barrel ...

Was it chambered for .318" Bullets and you just WHAMMED on it until it got down to 25cal?

The reason I ask is because it is all so confusing to beafoole, 1/2, teenScum, tomek and seafire.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...mauser barrels ...for a M-70 ... and tighten the barrel ...

Was it chambered for .318" Bullets and you just WHAMMED on it until it got down to 25cal?

The reason I ask is because it is all so confusing to beafoole, 1/2, teenScum, tomek and seafire.

Heck man.....I hear Obama is going to tax folks a dollar per post for having excessive fun on the internet.....

He's gonna get you yet!

I'm not sure I have much to add to this commentary, but what the heck. .257 Robert's is truly my favorite round. My name is, afterall, Robert...

Anyway, I just did a quick inventory of the reloading bench, on it I have the following bullets:

100gr. Hornady IL, Sierra SGK, Nosler Partition
110gr. Nosler AB
117gr. Sierra SGK, Hornady 117 SST.

My rifle has shown a definite preference to the Sierra's and especially loves the 117 SGK. If the rifle doesn't drop a 3/4" group, something's very wrong with the shooter.

The 110 AB shoots, well, poorly for this rifle. It's a very consistent 1.25" group.

The SST's shoot well, just marginally larger groups than the SGK but still sub moa. They are violent on deer and the destruction they caused in the chest cavity of a doe was more severe than that of the 117 SGK. Still, dead is dead... I pegged a spike two years ago with the 117 SGK right in the shoulder sweetspot. Heart and Lungs with a blood spray out the back even Hellen Keller could read. My buddy John couldn't understand how the deer managed to run 30 yards. The innards were an absolute mess. Not quite as destroyed as the SST, but still.

Dead is dead. Right?

On the other hand I'm not convinced of the penetrating power of the SST. A head shot hog didn't have an exit. Not sure I should be concerned about that though. Hogs is Hogs.

Anyway, with the .25-06, unless you absolutely are shooting at Elk or Moose and want some added insurance on penetration in case you hit bone, I just don't see the benefit of the Premium bullets in a .25-06 or .257 Roberts (a .257 STW or Roy certainly, but that's 3,400 fps or so). So, unless the Partition shoots amazingly well, it's just money spent for little gain.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...mauser barrels ...for a M-70 ... and tighten the barrel ...

Was it chambered for .318" Bullets and you just WHAMMED on it until it got down to 25cal?

The reason I ask is because it is all so confusing to beafoole, 1/2, teenScum, tomek and seafire.

You will need to post pictures for Hotsh#t to understand. Make sure that they are big and bright wait a second .................someone tried that with the big yellow picture of the Berger Bullets and it didn't work that time either.

Here's hoping for the Old Buttshooter/Berger Bullet boy/.25ACP expert....... but without his meds.................look out.

you should try the hornady 100 grain spire points. they are plenty tough and give full penetration on deer. also plenty fast.

I have hunted whitetail with a 25.06 since 1970 I think they came out in 1969 and have always shot 117 gr Sierra for deer. 49 GRS OF IMR- 4350 is a very good load but do not forget IMR 4831 which is also very good @ around 52.0 grs this is close to a max load so work up to.

quote:

I have glas-bedded the tip and recoil lug. It has a crappy trigger pull and I haven't been able to remove the creep yet, and may see if I can drop it off at Ilion to have a newer trigger installed.

I have had experience with two factory 700's in 25-06. Both had the hump in the barrel channel of the stock at the tip, and both would only shoot one bullet or powder combination very accurately. After removing the hump in the stock, we got them both into less than 1" groups with a variety of loads. If it has the standard stock factory barrel I would drop the hump and go from there.

Bullets ranging from the 110 up to moat any of the 120's should get you anywhere from around 3300fps with the 110 to 3100fps for the 120's on the top end. Both of the ones I have worked up loads for liked the slower powders like RL-22, H-4831, and such with the heavier bullets. The lighter ones liked IMR-4831 and either of the 4350's, and RL-19.

There are a lot of powders which should give you good velocity and accuracy. One thing I would also recommend is trying out different brand cases as well. I have used all makes over the years and found that Rem and Win were the best overall in both case life and consistent groups.

My personal 25 shoots the 115gr PT's into those tiny groups you hear about so I used them almost exclusively until the AB came out. When it did I had just finished reworking the stock, swapping scopes, and was about to give the rifle to my daughter. I simply dropped the Partition and seated the AB with no other change to the load and it also will shoot around 3/4" at 200yds. If the groups are more than 1" something has been wrong with the shooter. I use 56grs of RL-22 under either bullet lit off with a Win-WLR primer in either Rem or Win cases. The OAL for both was determined by setting up the seating die to seat the 100gr BT to a base to tip length of 3.250" and not changing the die afterwards. For whatever blessed reason this has been the most accurate rifle I have ever had the pleasure of hunting and shooting with over the past 25 years.

With both loads I have taken deer, hogs, coyotes, and quite a few other critters out to ranges of over 400yds, conditions permitting. The Partitions accounting for over 90% of these kills, and all except for a few hogs were one shot DRT.

The other bullets I have used were the Sierra in several weights, the Nosler in all weights, the Remington in 100gr, the Hornady in several flavors, and the Speer 120's. The Berger 115's also shot very well but due to limited availability I only tried them with a few loads.

The seating depth has had more influence on these than just about anything except for the floated barrel. I would try working with the depth first and if your still getting squirrly groups with several bullets, I would drop the hump in the barrel channel.

I just finished working up a load for my latest quarter bore in 25-06 AI, and the groups at 300yds were just over 1" using some of the old Nosler 120gr Solid Base bullets. I am hopeful that it will also put the Partitions in groups somewhere around this as well as a few others bullets I have on hand. So far it has shown it has the ability if I am up to the challenge.

Good luck with yours, and I hope you get it worked out. I think you will find it totally up to the task your putting it to, once you hit a good load.

I am using a 100gr TSX Moly plated in a Ruger #1 with a 26" barrel.
Using Reloder #22. This load runs over 3400MV.
It is a deadly load and super accurate. Deer and Antelope is what I use it for but mostly Antelope. Wit the same bullet and a 257 Roberts rifle I dropped a Moose with one shot through the neck behind the ear. These bullets shoot three shots in one hole at 100yrds.

For Deer I also use 100gr Hotcore and 100gr Hornady interlock in different rifles.

I have five 1/4bore rifles which have produced more one shot kills tan I can count or remember..

I'll add my vote that premium bullets are not needed for deer unless you are shooting a magnum caliber, and even then the toughness is only needed to hold the bullet together at shorter distances.

In my 25-06, I use either the 117 gr or 120 gr Hornadys. Generally, I like the 117 because it does have better ballistics. With a case full of real slow powder, you can get 115-117 gr bullets over 3000 fps without any trouble, and the Hornadys have been very accurate for me. Completely satisfied with their terminal performance out to 300+ yds.

From what I have been able to gather, the 120 gr Hornady hollow points are a pretty tough bullet, being designed for elk sized animals. You may very well get premium bullet performance at standard bullet pricing with this bullet. I can't say myself - no animal I've shot with them has stopped the bullet, so I can't see what they look like after full penetration. It would be interesting to do a comparison (in wet newspaper for example) between the various 100-117 gr cup and core bullets and this 120 gr HP. Not that this truly indicates its performance on game, but it could show if it is relatively tougher than the generic softpoints which work exceptionally well in the 25-06.

Barnes Tsx's are very suitable for what you are asking of them .
Why not use so called premium bullets for deer ? Do they some how deserve less respect than say the animals that you save the premiums for ????
The beauty of the Barnes design is you can drop down in bullet weight to achieve the same weight retention value of heavier non solid copper bullets.
I use ttsx in my 25-06 in 80 gr weight for deer
and would not hesitate to use them at longer range either
never could get the Partitions to group well (under a inch)

My .25-06 likes partitions quite well, usually 3/4 of an inch or so when I do my part, and I loaded them for years with 48.5 grains IMR 4350. I've killed 5 whitetails and 1 pronghorn with this combination in the last 4 years, at ranges between 115 yards to 301 yards (the antelope). All were one shot kills except for one big whitetail buck who was on the run. He would have died after the first one, but he kept running so I kept shooting. 3 were bang/flop. Last year, I tried 117 grain hornady SPBT interlock with the same powder and charge, and found they shoot equally well, if not a little better, and perform just as well. My Wisconsin buck last year was hit low behind the shoulder at 133 yards with the hornady bullet, and it took out the bottom of both lungs, the heart, and three ribs, and exited in the exact spot behind the off shoulder. He jumped straight up, fell on his face, then ran about thirty yards and fell over. I'll probably stick with the hornadys from here on out, unless I ever use the rifle for anything bigger than deer, because they cost half as much as the noslers. As an aside, my rifle also likes 75 grain v maxes with 61 grains of RL 19, which it seems is quite rare. From what I read on this and other forums, most 25-06 shooters can get their guns to shoot the big bullets or the little bullets, but not both. Guess I'm just lucky. By the way, the gun is a custom 700 built by a gunsmith friend of mine - shilen barrel, left handed 700 action with original trigger, grey/black fajen laminate stock, decellerator pad, and a 4.5-14x40 VX-III in burris rings and bases on top.
Dawg