My newest project, a 22 varmint rifle. I know there are a lot of top calibers like 223, 22-250, 220 swift and others, but I want to make it with one of these both calibers. Informations and brass (esp. for the 61 SE v. Hofe) are hard to find. But thats the challenge.
Any ideas and informations?

Have tried this?
http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Patronen/5,6x61.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/5-6x57.htm

I would say that, ballkistically and load-data-wise, the RWS 5,7X57 is very similar to the .22 Newton of 1914 vintage. Although Newton used a .228" bullet as he did in the .22 Savage HP, he used bullets of from 70 up to 90 grains in the round based on the 7X57mm Mauser.

You might reference some loads in COTW and Ackley's series on wildcat cartridges.

Yes perhaps balisticaly they are similar however the 5,7x57 RWS case is not just a necked down 7x57 case, the walls of the case mouth are a lot thicker than standard.

It was designed that way for two reasons, one that the necks should last longer and be stronger and also so that one could shoot .22 WRM in a reduction case for practice and coup de grace shoots on caught or shot game.

neck thickness does mean one problem when using the standard 5,6x57 cases, they tend to only shoot weel at max loads, it´s not a case to shoot at half trottle..

/C

Christian is too right about the 5.6x57mm RWS cases. I own a neat little Mannlicher carbine in 5.6x57mm, and feeding it has been a zoo due to that overly thick neck design. If you try to make brass out of a typical 57 mm case and squeeze it down in a 5.6x57mm sizing die, the neck will be too large, as the dies are made for the thick necked RWS brass. You must use another .224 sizing die to get the brass down to the proper size. Of course the brass opens up to the larger diameter when it is fired. The only option is to either use ONLY RWS 5.6x57mm brass or go completely custom with custom dies set for standard neck thickness and a "standardized" meaning normal brass thickness chamber.

Frankly, I would NOT go for a 5.6x57mm unless I meant to operate strictly using RWS brass. Having said that, I am using 5.6x57mm RWS brass, available via Natchez Shooters Supply here in the USA, and I still have my trove of new 6mm Remington brass that I originally planned to use for this project. It is a fun cartridge, but I see little use for it when the .220 Swift and .22-250 are available. The only thing I see the 5.6 offers is that it uses heavier bullets for use against small deer, which is how I plan to use mine.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

I have a custom built 5.6 x 57 RWS on a Parker Hale Mauser action. It is a great shooter and 74gn RWS cone point bullets work well on deer.

Cristian & Sierra are correct, it needs hot loads to seal chamber.

Burkhard is in Germany where the 5.6 x 57 brass is made by RWS who to my knowledge are the only manufacturer so supply may not be an issue as it is for us. I am not sure the 5.6 x 61 is even in production anywhere.

The only reason the 5.6 x 57 RWS handles larger bullets than the Swift for hunting is the fast twist barrel of 1-10 or greater. Fit a fast twist barrel to a Swift or similar and you can use the heavy bullets anyway.

Unless you are assured of a steady supply of brass I wouldnt even attempt this project. The brass is not readily formed from other cases as others have pointed out. Also the round is designed as a hunting round and not a target/varmint round like, say, PPC/.220 Russian from Lapua.

I suggest you think about what you are trying to achieve here. 5.6 x 57 is only a little above .220 Swift in capacity. It is hard to get much more velocity from smaller .224 bullets although rounds like .220 Swift Improved, .22/.243 or .22 CHeetah get a bit more than the Swift.

From playing around with a computer programme "Load from a Disk" (www.loadammo.com) and studying all information I could find it is my belief that the real gains in .22 centre fires in cases above Swift are in pushing larger bullets of say 69 gns and above which on paper anyway seem to get usable gains with increased case size compared to say 55 gn bullets that most seem to think are varmint bullets.

Sierra make HPBT Match bullets in 69, 77, 80 and 90 gn weights. These are MatchKing and intended for long range target shooting but would work fine in my opinion on varmint type targets. They also are intended for long range accurate shooting and this is what you are trying to achieve. Ballistically efficient and should work better in wind and retain velocity better than light bullets of say 50 - 55 gns.

My on paper experiments with Load From a Disk have lead me to belive the best results would come from using these in a shortened .338 Lapua case which is designed from the start with target accuracy in mind and easily available.

The finished product looks like a large PPC, a short fat round which the bench rest set suggest is the best to acieve high accuracy with.

How far do you want to shoot? A rabbit at 500 metres is a small target and off the shelf rifles in .204 and .223 will take care of that.

Your biggest problem at longer ranges isnt how hard you hit them, its compensating for wind drift and bullet drop.

Gehmann make´s the only factory ammunition in 5,6x61. Very rare to get and expensive to buy. Chose a cheaper round and easier to buy like the .22-250 or a .223 rem. The price for a box of 20 rounds 5,6x57 4,8g KS from RWS is listed in the new price list ( April 07) about €74.--.
I´m thinking every year about a varmint rifle and I have the same problem. What for a round I should chose? But thank God, I found every year a new big bore rifle for me.

Martin

I would have thought this post would have provoked much more discussion than it has.

Has anyone built a large case .22? What results can you report?

I am still toying with the idea of a large case .22 with a fast twist barrel solely to shoot the large Sierra bullets for long range varminting.

Any advice from someone who has actually done this or similar?

22-08 and there you have it, or perhaps a 22/6,5x47 Lapua?


I am a strong beliver in the 5,6x57 and I will get one when and if I get a Blaser R93.

i will then get a 5,6x57, a 7x57 and a 9,3x62 barrel to that rifle.

All in all a one rifle package for Sweden.

Best of luck with your plans.


PS should you decide to get a 5,6x57 and are having trouble finding brass, IM me and I will help you get sorted on the condition that you show us some pics of the rifle DS

/Chris

I have a .220 swift that I had built about 21 years ago. I spent years working on a load that would work. If I had it all to do over I would have chosen the 5.6x57.

The 5.6xx57 Wsa desinged for roe deer and will stabilize heavy bullits. That just simplifies everything. Thanks to the previous post for pointing out the issue with case thickness that I did not know but since your in Germany coming up with RWS brass should'nt be a problem

Kiwi,

I have a 22-284 Winchester, does that count? 80gr VLD bullets at 3600fps and low.3's at 100ydsm just under an inch at 300 for 5-shots.

If that don't get 'er done, I built a 22-378'WBee/AI in the mid-nineties. Still have the reamer set if you're interested....?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Kiwi,

I have a 22-284 Winchester, does that count?
Rich
DRSS

Does that count?? ...3600 Ft/Sec with a 80 grain bullet...everything in that dept counts .
If point of aim is 200 yards..what would the bulletdrop be at 300 yards.??

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Kiwi,

I have a 22-284 Winchester, does that count? 80gr VLD bullets at 3600fps and low.3's at 100ydsm just under an inch at 300 for 5-shots.

If that don't get 'er done, I built a 22-378'WBee/AI in the mid-nineties. Still have the reamer set if you're interested....?

Rich
DRSS

Damn, I've only got a 22-243 with a 1:8 twist. It loves 69 Nosler Custom Comps.........and they knock 'roos down like they have been electrocuted

Could you please post some pictures of the barrel for the R 93 in 5.6x57 since i have a Krico in 5,6x57. Its an interesstering shell and it should have been used more.

the biggest 22 i know of is a .22-50 BMG, a 55 grain bullet in 5000 feet +...