Well last week I finally bought my first centerfire under .30. I couldn't refuse the price, it is the Stevens mdl 200 in .223 Rem. and it was $320 CAN.

I've read good things about its accuracy and can't wait to try it on some coyotes. It has the 1:9 twist so I'm thinking of heavier match bullets so there is little pelt damage.

Do you guys have any favorite loads which could help out to 600 yards?

Thanks and Merry Christmas,

Mike

Same rifle, 70gr. VLD. 24.7gr. Acc-2520,- 2900fps. 2" group at 400 yds. Haven't gone to 600 yet. roger

Thanks for the help, what size scope would you use for this?

roger

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
Thanks for the help, what size scope would you use for this?

I now use a 24X. There have been guys shooting next to me with 45-70s and tang peep sights and hitting 8 out of 8 , 600 yds., 1100 fps. .(Boar silloette). Start with an el cheapo 8x24 and go from there.

quote:

try it on some coyotes.

Do you guys have any favorite loads which could help out to 600 yards?

In all seriousness friend the .223 is not a 600 yard cartridge......expecially for coyotes.
400 yards is stretching it a bit!!

I use 50 grain bullets in mine but you can also shoot 60 grains if you like.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

try it on some coyotes.

Do you guys have any favorite loads which could help out to 600 yards?

In all seriousness friend the .223 is not a 600 yard cartridge......expecially for coyotes.
400 yards is stretching it a bit!!

I use 50 grain bullets in mine but you can also shoot 60 grains if you like.

I agree with vapodog. A 600-yard shot on a paper target is hard. A 600 yard shot on a target that’s not much bigger and moves? I find that interesting.

Might suggest you check out a local High Power match in your area and observe the excellent scores being shot with the 223/AR15 and bolt guns at ranges of 600 yards. It is done repeatedly throughout the U.S. but what you will not find are barrels with the 9 twist and lightweight bullets. Rather, twists of 7 or 8 and bullet weights of 70-80 grains(Sierras mostly dominate but there certainly are other brands) X ring at 600 yards in something on the order of 6" and out of twenty shots for slow fire, prone, sling, no rests or bags, good shooters will put more than half of them in that area so most critters would be in trouble. Mind you these scores are shot with issue peep sights so scopes with the right rifle would be somewhat easier. Check it out in your area, lots of fun to watch and you may even want to give it a try. Misery loves company!!

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Might suggest you check out a local High Power match in your area and observe the excellent scores being shot with the 223/AR15 and bolt guns at ranges of 600 yards. It is done repeatedly throughout the U.S. but what you will not find are barrels with the 9 twist and lightweight bullets. Rather, twists of 7 or 8 and bullet weights of 70-80 grains(Sierras mostly dominate but there certainly are other brands) X ring at 600 yards in something on the order of 6" and out of twenty shots for slow fire, prone, sling, no rests or bags, good shooters will put more than half of them in that area so most critters would be in trouble. Mind you these scores are shot with issue peep sights so scopes with the right rifle would be somewhat easier. Check it out in your area, lots of fun to watch and you may even want to give it a try. Misery loves company!!

Were the targets moving? I don’t deal in the world of “wishful thoughts†either. Did they hit any live targets?

I'm a long range coyote shooter.

I shoot problem dogs off of ranches here that are educated from people blasting at them at 400 plus yards with their 223s.

I don't shoot my 223 for dogs past 300 yards. Past that I go with a heavy bullet in 24 - 26 caliber.

quote:

In all seriousness friend the .223 is not a 600 yard cartridge......expecially for coyotes.
400 yards is stretching it a bit!!

I use 50 grain bullets in mine but you can also shoot 60 grains if you like.

You'd find yourself losing that bet with the shooters at Camp Perry. In the AR-15 / M-16 platform the 5.56/.223 has been winning everything. With a big bullet, 69 gn SMK you'll be very happy with the 600 yard performance. Shoot it yourself, Mike, if you listen to the doom and gloom Nay-sayers here, you'd stay in bed all day.

Longest shots I've tried with my FrankenAR-15 were at 600yards (Whitehorse Range) on bullseye and then on steel. Once you're set up and dialed in you can get very fast follow up shots on target.

I was using 77gr SMKs at around 2,800fps and I believe the top of the third Mildot down on my 2.5-10x Tasco scope (it's been a while). Prone from bipod. Not exactly high end equipment but the gong didn't know that with the bullets clumped in an 8" group in the center.


I wouldn't want to be a yote sized target with someone whacking away at me with a heavy bullet .223 load at that range
Specially if that person unlike me knew what he was doing.

Thanks guys,

What I'm probably going to do is work up a load and use the 200 yard range at the club. Once my load is settled in I'll try some shooting in one of the clear cuts where we hunt moose.

I'll wait for calm days and if what I shoot doesn't even resemble a group then I won't bother that far. Until now I was using a .308 Win using 110gr V-max bullets for coyotes but I've since converted it to 338 Fed. hence buying a new toy.

For a scope, I'll buy a cheapo for now from Marstar.ca I see they sell some mil-dot 6x24x40's for about $200.

Thanks for the input.

Hello MickinColo,
Nothing wishful about what I stated as well as others pertaining to the ability to engage/shoot targets at 600 yards and beyond with the 223/5.56mm. You mention moving targets and apparently you do not think it can be done at stationary targets so until I mastered that phase would not worry about the moving targets. That will come with training and practice. Are you a classifed shooter in either High Power(XC) or Long Range?? I probably know the answer for if you were you would not be making the statements you make.

I don't like the 22s at 600 yards because of the ballistics.
The 69 grain SMK at 600 yards Vs the 142 grain SMK;

Range...Drop....Windage.Velocity.......Energy
(yds)....(in)......(in)........(ft/s).........(ft•lbs)

69 grain SMK
600.....-94.5.....45.6.....1490.6........340.4

142 grain SMK
600.....-68.6.....20.3.....2111.5........1405.5

That's over 2 more feet of wind drift with no range flags

Hello Fjold,
Using wrong bullet with the 69's, might want to run those numbers again using the Sierra 80gr MK's for that is what most will use for the 600 yard or beyond. The 77MK's work well also plus they will feed in the magazine w/o sacrificing/compressing powder charge. Believe the 80's will show much improvement.
You would not want to stick your head up at 600 yards or beyond with skilled person pulling the trigger, whether target stationary or moving!!
As for the range flags, give them only partial attention for often they may be damp, odd shaped, heavier material, etc., so would rather depend on those other wind signs that exist, but your point is well taken. X ring at 600 yards is no problem at 600 yards and unless you are shooting chipmunks, most critters would be hits if the shooter does his part.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Hello Fjold,
Using wrong bullet with the 69's, might want to run those numbers again using the Sierra 80gr MK's for that is what most will use for the 600 yard or beyond. The 77MK's work well also plus they will feed in the magazine w/o sacrificing/compressing powder charge. Believe the 80's will show much improvement.
You would not want to stick your head up at 600 yards or beyond with skilled person pulling the trigger, whether target stationary or moving!!
As for the range flags, give them only partial attention for often they may be damp, odd shaped, heavier material, etc., so would rather depend on those other wind signs that exist, but your point is well taken. X ring at 600 yards is no problem at 600 yards and unless you are shooting chipmunks, most critters would be hits if the shooter does his part.

I just used the 69 grainer because one of the previous posters was using that as his example at 600 yards, it wouldn't be my choice either.

Since the original poster is shooting a 1:9 twist 223 he can't shoot 80 grain bullets so they're not a legitimate option for this discussion.

Even with the 80 grain bullet the ballistics are:
Range...Drop....Windage.Velocity....Energy
(yds)....(in).......(in).......(ft/s).......(ft•lbs)
600......-101.3....36.4.....1569......437.2

That's still over 16" more wind drift than my 142 grain bullets. I feel more confident with my 6.5x284 at the 600 yard point and beyond.

Even with my 1:10" twist, tight neck 22.250, rifle shooting the 70 grain bullets I don't shoot past 400 yards for coyotes with it because wind is tough with no sighters and open range distance estimates.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
Thanks guys,

What I'm probably going to do is work up a load and use the 200 yard range at the club. Once my load is settled in I'll try some shooting in one of the clear cuts where we hunt moose.

I'll wait for calm days and if what I shoot doesn't even resemble a group then I won't bother that far. Until now I was using a .308 Win using 110gr V-max bullets for coyotes but I've since converted it to 338 Fed. hence buying a new toy.

For a scope, I'll buy a cheapo for now from Marstar.ca I see they sell some mil-dot 6x24x40's for about $200.

Thanks for the input.

Berreta...

I have only the heavy barreled Savage 12 BVSs on the Savage/Stevens action, with the fast twist...

I have a Remington ADL and a Mdoel 70 Featherweight in 223, for mobile varmint shooting..

I have admit, tho, I can see picking up a Stevens in 223, for the fast twist.. bullet of choice would be the 75 grain HP Hornady.. it is by far the most accurate heavier grained 22 caliber bullet I have shot thru my Savage and the Fast twist 22/.250 I also put together...

But for a scope on that puppy, Like I put on my ADL, is the plain old cheap $60.00 or so, Tasco 2.5 x 10.. it has a mildot set up.. and what has surprised me is it has pretty darn decent optic quality.. even if its price was 3 times higher!

I've had it out in some pretty severe weather here in Oregon, to include snow and cold up in the Cascades, which would duplicate Ontario in the winter easily...

Mounted a pair of them on 243s for my son and his friend to use this past deer season and they bounced the rifles all over the place and we were out in a lot of rain... and both the scopes never missed a beat.. fogged up etc...

for an out in the brush scope, it sure beats anything offered by the likes of BSA or some of the other el cheappo stuff offered on the market...

plus Bushnell selling them, they back up their stuff pretty decently compared to the other NON Leupold stuff...

just a suggestion... but If when I do pick up a faster twist Stevens, it will definitely get the Tasco 2.5 x 10 scope on it...

For the other guys, prairie dogs at 600 yds, with a fast twist 223, and decent optics... .with a 75 grain HP match Hornady, or a 75 or 80 grain A Max... if you can do your job, anyone of those bullets will definitely do their job...

In a bolt 223, they can be launched at 2800 to 3000 fps or so.. If you don't think they will drop right in there at that distance, all that tells me is that you haven't worked with them...

Fjold,
Next time out there, regardless of caliber being used w/ unknown wind issues, try the following: RxV/1000/2=moa adjustment. Range, being distance x Velocity of wind(estimate)/divided by 1000(constant)/divided by half due to not knowing exactly what clock face direction the wind is coming from and you will be quite close at required wind adjustment. (If the wind is coming directly from 3 or 9 o'clock, go ahead with the answer divided by 1000 and do not further divide-full value wind as compared to 1/2value wind situation.) At 600 and beyond a missed shot is often regarded by the target, whatever that critter might be, as something unusual and not sure where it is coming from and therefore confused and usually remains somewhat still for a while. Gives you the chance to dial in real close for the second shot if required. At long range sound is muffled, and not easy to determine which direction the shot originated giving the rifleman a decided advantage for that second and fatal shot. Use a mil dot system, not caliber/load specific as these hyped BDC optics you see offered. If you can determine a mil dot reading on the target(height or width) and know the size of the target in yards for example, you can get real close to distance to target. Trick is knowing the come ups for your caliber. 223 at 600 w/ 100 yard zero is approx. 13-15moa elevation. With enough practice you can do the wind est. formula and mil dot reading real quick and the shot is going to be very damn close if not a hit.
Check this one out if interested in practicing from you den or house: www.shooterready.com

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Fjold,
Next time out there, regardless of caliber being used w/ unknown wind issues, try the following: RxV/1000/2=moa adjustment. Range, being distance x Velocity of wind(estimate)/divided by 1000(constant)/divided by half due to not knowing exactly what clock face direction the wind is coming from and you will be quite close at required wind adjustment. (If the wind is coming directly from 3 or 9 o'clock, go ahead with the answer divided by 1000 and do not further divide-full value wind as compared to 1/2value wind situation.) At 600 and beyond a missed shot is often regarded by the target, whatever that critter might be, as something unusual and not sure where it is coming from and therefore confused and usually remains somewhat still for a while. Gives you the chance to dial in real close for the second shot if required. At long range sound is muffled, and not easy to determine which direction the shot originated giving the rifleman a decided advantage for that second and fatal shot. Use a mil dot system, not caliber/load specific as these hyped BDC optics you see offered. If you can determine a mil dot reading on the target(height or width) and know the size of the target in yards for example, you can get real close to distance to target. Trick is knowing the come ups for your caliber. 223 at 600 w/ 100 yard zero is approx. 13-15moa elevation. With enough practice you can do the wind est. formula and mil dot reading real quick and the shot is going to be very damn close if not a hit.
Check this one out if interested in practicing from you den or house: www.shooterready.com

Thanks, I use a Mildot on my 6.5x284 and it works fine.

Wind doping works fine if you're practiced at it and it's constant in both direction and velocity. But often it is not over the distance and you just have to estimate it and trust that the BC will get the bullet there. By shooting a heavier bullet with a better BC, I take at least 16-24 inches of guesstimate out of the equation.

How do you get those coyotes to wait around whilst you get your bench set up, your front rest adjusted, your toe bag in place, your sighters fired, your wind doped and then have him hold still at exactly 600 or 700 or xxx yards?
Do you tie them out or what?

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
How do you get those coyotes to wait around whilst you get your bench set up, your front rest adjusted, your toe bag in place, your sighters fired, your wind doped and then have him hold still at exactly 600 or 700 or xxx yards?
Do you tie them out or what?

On that one pictured, we were shooting prairie dogs and I already had my bench set up, sandbags adjusted, etc and had taken about 40 prairie dogs. I had already ranged a bunch of rocks out in the field when she popped up behind the 720 yard rock looking for carcasses.

She stopped just long enough for me to spin my scope up to my 700 yard setting and hold high on her shoulder. She thought that she was safe out there until the 142 grain SMK took her through both lungs.

I took my best prairie dog on that same hunt at 798 yards.

this is all good info guys, thanks,

I'm still waiting for a scope, rings, bases and some time to work on loads.

I'll keep you posted.

quote:

She stopped just long enough for me to spin my scope up to my 700 yard setting and hold high on her shoulder. She thought that she was safe out there until the 142 grain SMK took her through both lungs.

I heard they don't go too far after a DOUBLE lung shot. Maybe 20 yards. (10 yard radius )

I'm with Fjold and Vapodog on this one . 400 yd. on coyote sized animals with a .223 is max for me . Unreliable beyond that distance for effective killing power . US military didn't develop it for a sniper weapon . It was designed as a wounding weapon removes two soldiers from battle in theory anyway . Also allows more ammo to be carried in combat situations .

Step up in caliber when going beyond 400 Yd. as Frank pointed out wind drift alone is enough of a deterrent not to mention lack of Ft. Lb. energy !.

Happy New Year ALL of you . ...