What do you think...

I bought a new 204 caliber HB SS Remington 700.. I had my gunsmith free float the barrel, and adjust the trigger. I took it to the range and sighted it in with about 5 or 6 shots @ 100 yards. I then shot a three shot group into a sub half in group from Hornady factory 32 grain. It was starting to rain so I called it a day.

When I went home to take a picture of the rifle, I had it perched on my gun cleaning case on a MTS plastic rest, sitting on the floor. Weeellll before I snapped the picture the rifle fell to the floor, it had to land on the scope. Even though it only fell about 10 inches to the carpet, it knocked the scope out of alignment some six or seven inches to the left.

Now when I went back to the range I had to re-adjust and get it back on the bull. But the best groups I am getting is 1.5 to 1.3 inches @ 100 yards? can my scope be damaged and still shoot 1.3 inch groups? Or was the the previous three shot group of .354 a Fluke, what do you guys think?

I am going to handload for it anyway, but I still wonder if the scope can be damaged and still shoot one inch + groups?

Regards... Jim P.

It is possible the .354 group was a fluke but my vote would be the scope was damaged. If you have a spare swap it out and try it again.

I just got back from the range with a #1 in 204. I'm really impressed. It is a flat shooting cartridge and even with a bit of wind shot very well. I'm sold.

I was shooting factory 32gr hornady ammo. Not counting fowlers every group was well under an inch and the best few were about what you got on your first outing (.3-.4"). Not bad for a factory #1.

BTW the trigger is the best I have ever seen on a Ruger. Crisp and light. The corporate legal hawks were getting coffee when this one got made.

John

If your scope was knocked off that far, I would definitly suspect the scope. Would you mind letting us know what kind of scope it was?
My hunting scopes do see some non-intential abuse, and I expect them to handle a fall on the carpet better than that.

Hi OF...

It is a Nikon Buckmaster.... beautiful silver scope to match the SS rifle. Very Bright and clear. I have a feeling if it was one of my trusted Leupolds, or even a Nikon Monarch that it wouldn't have been damaged, if it is..???

I guess I will have to try the shoot around the square test, and probably swap it out with another scope to be sure...

Damn it, I fix one problem and create another one...LOL

Regards... Jim P.

PaHunter ,
Good idea to try another scope on it for your own peace of mind but statistically one good 3 shot group proves close to nothing .Some of the benchrest guys must split their sides laughing when they hear all the guys on internet forums bragging about (1 x 3 shot group) "sub 1/2 MOA rifles".

while 1 group doesn't prove the rifle out, the shift in impact point from a small drop would indicate to me that the mounts were probably not seated right. My xr-100 shoots that good and has for several weeks now. I would suspect the mounts 1st and the scope 2nd.

Hi Bush:

Well I am not a bench rest shooter. And I would of tested the rifle extensively but I didn't feel like sitting in a rain storm with all my equipment laying all over the place. Now if I shot 5 three shot groups, all under one half inch, I would say that is a very reliable Chuck hunting load out to at least 400 yards. There are no prarie dog towns in PA )

I like punching paper, but I do so to find my hunting rifles best accuracy.

Regards... Jim P.

Hi Butch:

I have been following your posts on your new rifle and I like the pics. It seems to be shooting great.

I am going to give H4895 and AA2230 a try. But I have to sort out this scope first. Once I have my rigs set up and shooting good I hate to pull them apart. Meaning I don't want to have to pull a sighted in scope off another rifle.

I do have a Leupold 3X9 compact at my gunsmiths, I can put that on and see what happens before I either send the scope back or keep it as is.

I gave Nikon service a call today, I would of just sent the scope back and upgraded to a more expensive scope, but all they do is repair them.

Oh well, time will tell.

REgards... Jim P.

PaHunter ,
5 x 3 shot groups would be good indicator . Not suggesting I would have hung around shooting in the rain but you know what I mean when I say that some guys get a bit carried away when they shoot one good group . My own standard for a really accurate varmint rifle is one that shoots 1/2 inch 5 shot groups off a bipod in good conditions and when I do my part . 3 shot groups average about half the size of 5 shotters I believe and seem to be the standard for most on internet forums .
That's ok but one hot day doesn't make a summer and one good group doesn't mean a rifle is accurate .

With that short of a fall, my first inclination would be that the base/rings were the primary area of suspicion. Make sure the holes have been degreased and that everything is Lok-Tited -- and that the screws were installed with even pressure (tighten them down 1 to 2 turns at a time, rotating from one to the next).

I've used the Nikon BMs and have abused them through some rather tough hunting conditions, including a number of bumps and scrapes from the rough, rocky terrain in the TX Hill Country. None has ever shifted POI or given up the ghost. Ditto for my Monarchs...

Hi Guys:

Weeelllll it's not the scope. I replaced the suspect Nikon with a an old standby Steel Weaver Microtrack in 25X.... The rifle shot the same size groups as with the Nikon. Concensus it's the ammo not the scope. The fall on the scope is not at fault. In my rifle the Hornady is not consistent with their factory ammo. The one good group was a Fluke.

I had three boxes of Hornady 32 grain, and one box of the 40 grain, two boxes with the same lot number, and one with a different lot number of the 32's. That one good group came from the odd lot number. Actually the 40 grain Hornadys factory fodder shot the most consistent.

The first time I shot a .625 for four shots before the rain with the 40 grain. I went to the range tonight and shot (5) three shot groups with the 32 grainers. For the most part they averaged about 1.5 inches. I then shot a seven shot group, the last of my 40 grain ammo, four of the shots went into .235 then the other three opened up the group to about 1.245 for seven shots.

Another observation is that my rifle really throws the first one or two shots from a clean barrel. Foulers will be needed before a serious group testing session.

I am waiting for my dies any day now. I ordered a box of the 32 grain Hornady bullets. My gunsmith is a Long range Shooting Nut and did some very extensive testing with Berger Bullets. My rifle seems to prefer the heavier bullet so I am also going to give them a try with H4895. I also heard of some very good results with AA2230 and VVN140...

I was hoping to get better results from the factory fodder, but I guess that is why I reload my own for the most part.

Regards... Jim P

PAHunter
When you drop a 9 lbs rifle 3 feet on its rear or front bell you can assume you bent the bell.
This would put the lense out of alignment. If it fell on your toe it would perhaps break your toe?

The least amont of difference looking through the scope would move the image in the erector lense where the X-hair is loacated. One 1-1/2inch aberation is quite possible.

This is the samee problem with cheap scopes where the lenses or rather the the optical centers of the lenses are not well aligned and focal lenth is out of whack.

I would check the rifle out with another scope,

PAHunter: I am saddened that your Rifle took the header there!
Dang it - I wish it would not have happened!
My good friend Jack was cleaning his new CZ rimfire Rifle recently and as he went to stand it back in his gun vault it slipped through his fingers because of oil on the stock and hit on the butt plate. The fall of about 10" caused a large wedge of stock material (about the size and shape of half a dime) to chip off the stock in the area of the rear of the reciever! The chip was not replaceable!
Stuff like this happens and I am sorry it happened to you and your scope!
I hope your new dies and reloads improve the Rifles shooting! I to am one not to shoot a Rifle at the range any more than I have to for load development and occassional sight in verification.
But I do use five shot groups for load testing and only shoot them anymore when the wind is dead calm!
So far in my two different one year old 204 Rifles the Berger 35 grain bullets with Federal 205M primers have done very well for me.
I plan on trying out the Sierra 32 gr. bullets in my just arrived Remington XR-100 - ASAP!
Thanks for sharing your unfortunate "lesson" with us! Its a good reminder.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hi VG:

Good luck with that new XR-100.... I hear they really shoot also.

I got the dies, collet and pilot... I am loading H4895 first becuase that is what I just uesed for the 350 Rem Mag with some great results.

I am waiting for my 35 & 40 grain Berger bullets to come in. I really want to see this rifle shoot .500 or better for five shot groups if possible.

Only time will tell... Keep us posted on the new XR-100...

Regards... Jim P.

PAHunter: Well I made it to the range this morning before the rains and winds set in for the afternoon!
Results were very promising and my new XR-100 in 204 will definitely be a keeper.
I broke the barrel in with Hornady factory 40 gr. ammunition. The barrel cleaned quickly and easily and the rifling appeared to be smooth and consistent the length of the barrel.
My XR-100 did show a definite preference for the 32 gr. Hornady factory ammo although the 40 grain factory ammo shot fairly well also.
Once the barrel was broke in I ended up shooting two 3 shot groups with each weight of Hornady factory ammo.
The 40 grainers groups measured .682" and .752".
The 32 grainers groups measured .326" and .439".
I was VERY pleased with these initial results at the range.
As a thunderstorm approached from the west I turned my attention to an absolute hoarde of Ground Squirrels that frequented the cultivated field next to my friends private range!
I only had 12 rounds of the 32 grain Hornady ammo left and wanted to make "first blood" with the new Varminter a certainty!
I carefully manuevered the VarmintMobile into position where I could shoot across the hood using my Dog-Gone-Good heavy "X" type bag as a rest. I did not have my Leica laser rangefinder along but I am certain I got several of the Ground Squirrels just past 200 yards!
I had wedged the XR-100 into my very heavy "X" bag and the hits were easily verified through the scope the instant after the shot.
To quickly I had gone through my small lot of factory ammo. It would sound to much like bragging if I told the number of Ground Squirrels I killed with those 12 rounds so I won't indulge in that.
But I will say this the new XR-100 is like an automatic death ray on these Sage Rats!
I will return to this private range ASAP with some Sierra 32 gr. handloads in my small stash of now once fired brass.
I am quite sure that this Rifle will make 5 shot groups under .400" with some of my handloads!
On my travels to and from the range I noticed a couple of Doe Antelope walking in their distinctive pre-birthing posture! They walk slowly and with a curved upward spine just before they give birth and I am sure in the next day or two there will be newborn Antelope on the ground!
I also saw lots of Whitetailed Deer and Mule Deer out feeding before the storm arrived.
Now to clean the XR-100 once more and use my Sinclair tool to ascertain how long a throat the new Remington Rifle has. Thats another good thing about single shots you can seat the bullets way out and not have to worry about cartrdige "maximum allowable magazine length"!
I will let you all know how the handloads shoot ASAP!
Long live Remington and long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

PAHunter, Just got back in from shaking down the Model 7, synthetic(nothing done to it but my GHD tigger deal(1.5lbs) and the 32 Sierras and 32 Hornadys and 2230 and H4895. 2230 gives you speed! And acceptable accurracy! H4895 gives consistent accurracy in a bunch of .204's and in this particular little short barrelled(20") .204, get's the nod!! 28.3 grains of H4895, Federal Match primer, COL of 2.380, ought to "do the deal" in your varmint machine!!! Now if you want to accelerate it, go to 28.3 grains of AA 2230 and the Federal Match primers and you'll see a difference!! My VLP likes the 2230 and the H4895 loads about the same.....difference in velocities!! The Model 7 seems to prefer the H4895!!! ENOUGH OF THE TESTING!!! LET'S GO KILL SOMETHING!!! I haven't even bedded this Model 7 yet and it will suffice for a carry or "walk around" varminter!! It wears a NIKON 4.5-14 BUCKMASTER w/side focus, and the first "mil-dot down" is dead on at 300 yards....How much further are we going to need to make a "carry gun" be accountable for? LONG LIVE THE .204!! I stil cannot bring myself to print the last part of the name!!! GHD

GHD,

Let's call it the 204 Hornady!!

Just returned from my daily hunt....shooting carpenter bees on the wing with Daisy Red Rider. Got 2 for 18 shots today. Can you imagine how much fun a country boy can have with a 1000 pack of BBs??!! Or, maybe we are easily entertained.

Lowrider, Just wait till the "June Bugs" come out and then you'll have hundreds of targets available......BTDT!!! I did shoot a hornet off of the 50 yard target with my 22 LR though! He was getting old paper off the old targets I guess but a Wildcat 22LR ended his paper gathering! GHD

Ground Hog Devastation: This may be a good subject for a thread of its own - but, do I notice some significant displeasure with the Ruger Company or their armaments in your postings?
Now I am a died in the wool Remington fan and understand how when others bemoan Big Green I get fidgety! But what has the Ruger company done to displease you in specific? And remember I am a Remington kinda guy and will not defend Ruger for any reasonable critique of them. I own about 10 Ruger Rifles and at least one Ruger pistol right now. I am certain I have owned 20 others over the years and have had at least good service from all of them!
I do have a couple of issues with the Ruger line but hardly worth mentioning!
I have in the past made very complimentary accolades on their behalf. Indeed the Ruger folks have been quite innovative and daring in the past (though nowhere near the wonderful innovations Big Green has come up with!) - for instance Ruger has chambered Rifles in cool calibers like 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 22 PPC, 6mm PPC, 257 Roberts, 458 Lott (if I recall that one correctly!) and many, many others!
I heartily profess my extreme happiness with the Ruger folks and the chances they took and the investment they made in the 204 Ruger project!
I even went and bought a Ruger 77 V/T in caliber 204 Ruger partially to help reward the Ruger folks for their innovation and foresightedness! By the way this Ruger 77 V/T in caliber 204 Ruger was pretty nicely finished very attractibve had an excellent trigger and very positive (SAFE) safety! It cleans easily and shoots very well at the range and in the Varmint fields! I did not have to bed or otherwise modify this recent Ruger Rifle in any way to obtain very acceptable accuracy!
Again kudos to Ruger and Company are in order.
Like the black bank robber said laying wounded in the street (from the movie Dirty Harry!) as Dirty Harry asked the robber "Punk did I shoot 6 rounds or only 5 from the worlds most powerful handgun"? then after a short bit of contemplation the robber asks Dirty Harry (and now I ask you) "I gots to know" - why do you decry the Ruger folks?

Long live the 204 Ruger! (see its easy to say or write!)

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, I applaud Ruger and HORNADY for having the wherewithall to bring the .204 RUGER into existence!!! Just like we all do in various endeavors that we try, we form opinions about certain, brands, flavors, mixtures, whatever and over the last 30 years or so, my sentiments have been directed away from the Ruger lines!! Now as far as single action revolvers go....THEY ARE GREAT!!! As far as Double action revolvers go....they are great!! As far as O/U shotguns go.....I think they are great also! But they bolt rifles have never really held me to their intigue like other makers have! I like you have blood that "I've been accused of running GREEN......either John Deere or Remington green!" And I guess my personal prejudice has been influenced also by their mini-14 debacle!!
As far as the bolt guns go.....I've owned a bunch of them! A couple I would dearly love to have back.....an old "round top" in .257Roberts,one of the original "ULTRALIGHT"s in .257ROBERTS(I need a serious a..kicking for selling that one!!!!) and a 1976 LIBERTY model in .250-3000!!! The Number 1's I've had were all acceptable shooters....probably some folks here who didn't have that same experience.....22-250(2), .220SWIFT, 25-06, they were all right rifles!! Old Bill done good on them! The bolt actions just never "fit" right or felt "wrong" when hunting with them(except for the afforementioned models), barrels on some chamberings weren't really sporters or varminters.....just somewhere in the middle and too heavy for carrying(25-06 and .270 come to mind!)And the trggers are ridicoulous(unless you have an older model that was adjustable from outside!!!) So I guess I'll just have to tone down my comments and from now own refrain from making off color comments that may offend someone! I never really intended for that to happen. Now you know from whence the comments came! Charlie(GHD)

Yikes! I just found out my Remington XR-100 in caliber 204 Ruger is somewhat "long throated"! According to my Sinclair Bullet Seating Depth Tool I would need to make my handloads 2.490" in overall length (using the Sierra 32 gr. Blitz Kings) to just touch the leades of the rifling in my Rifle! I assembled a round with an overall length of 2.440" and this test cartridge has the Sierra 32 grainer seated only .074" into the case!
I dare not try to use a longer cartridge over all length with this bullet or it will simply not have enough bullet in the neck for safety sake and for straight cartridges! The runout on this test cartridge by the way is an amazingly great .0013" (Redding dies and an RCBS A-2 press)!
Anyway I will try a batch of ten of these cartridges with the .074" seating of the bullet and see how they shoot tomorrow!
GHD you warned me!
The bullets will be jumping .050" inches before engaging the leades of the rifling and I would prefer about 1/10th that but its just not going to be - with these Sierra 32 grainers anyway!
Wish me luck someone - I have had many many Rifles that had to use "long jumping bullets" (before they hit the leades of the rifling) and many of them shot really well! Some even shot exceptionally well with the long jumping bullets - but, if I had my druthers I would like the chamber neck in this Remington XR-100 to be somewhat shorter!
We will see how she shoots shortly!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Well talk about another .204 success story......I picked up a Ruger V/T USED yet ; last week . Yesterday a 4.5x14 side focus Buckmaster arrived via the Optic Zone , and today , the little brown truck brought Hornaday dies , and five hundred little pieces of .204 WW brass (grin), coutesey Midway .

Went out and shot at 100 yards quartering into a gusty 20mph SE wind , and this rifle just flat amazed me . No tuning , no bedding , and the first group with 32 factory ammo went into 3/4 inch ! But that 39 gr Sierra.....dang , it just doesn't want to do anything but cut out one big hole......with 3 different powders ! Any and all Ruger bashers can just stick this baby your pipe and smoke it ! The trigger on this gun is fantastic , maybe 2 lbs with a very slight creep in the second stage........I just don't know how a factory could turn out a nicer varminter for this kind of money.........

VG, ALL OF THEM ARE LONG THROATED!!! Factory COL is 2.245!!!! The Savage VLP is jumping .160 to hit the lands!!! I'm loading it to 2.390 or 2.385 dpending on the bullet......but the amazing thing is that if I shortrn it down to 2.335.....not much difference.....go figure?????
SDGS, Congratulations on the new rifle!!! My SAVAGE shot a .440" group at 500.....yes 500 yards!!! Witnessed and attested to using the 39 grain Sierras!!! Can I do it again? Probably not!! The "horseshoe" was probably about "elbow depth up my butt" when I did that one!!! GHD

Had a great day today with the XR-100! In between rain squalls and hail drops! Finally just after noon the air stabilized here (which is unusual for mid-days around here!) I packed up my XR-100 and 20 rounds of handloads I made a few nights ago and headed for my protected from the wind private Rifle range.
I had loaded up ten rounds each of ammo using H 4895 powder and the powder Ground Hog Devastation suggests for 204's AA 2230!
I was using the Sierra 32 gr. Blitz King bullets in both test loads and used Federal 205M primers exclusively. I was also using Hornady brass - all 20 rounds of brass were once fired in my XR-100 and they originally were Hornady factory rounds.
The barrel was freshly cleaned and I fired one Hornady factory round to foul the barrel (if it needed it)!
The H 4895 rounds proved just a touch more accurate and I will emphasize I was impressed with both loads accuracy wise!
The H 4895 loads gave two five shot groups at 100 yards in good conditions of .322" and .402" for an average of .362"!
The AA 2230 loads gave two five shot groups at 100 yards in good conditions of .374" and .421" for an average of .374"!
I was thrilled with both loads and will have a hard time deciding which load to use.
The only "fly in the ointment" was that both loads gave me a tiny bit of cratering around the firing pin indentation! The Hornady factory round I fired for fouling today made no noticeable cratering at all! The loads I used I will not put into print therefore - but I will say that I am a notorious non-hotrodder when it comes to my handloads! No other pressure signs were observed at all! If anything I am wondering if not enough powder was used in my loads. I went with loads way under what had been recommended by my sources! I will do some measuring of brass and check my primer pockets for any loosening!
I am puzzled by this tiny bit of cratering, none the less?
I did get treated to watching several young pup Foxes (kits?) frolic in the mouth of their den not 300 yards from my shooting shack! They would sometimes dart away at my shots but most often just looked around for their mother to bring food! I never saw the adult and the range owner told me at times there are 7 Fox at that den! He asked me not to shoot them and of course I wouldn't anyway. The Fox around here have been recently decimated by the mainge! I will give them another few years to recover before I resume Hunting and calling them around here!
I was just as happy as could be with the new XR-100 and the last group I did not give the normal 2 - 3 minutes between shots but just fired it when conditions were as near calm as it was gonna be! That group measured .374" so the Rifle seems to be a "non-stringer" if you know what I mean!
I have a Leupold 8.5x25x40mm scope on this XR-100 and the only thing I have done to the Rifle was to adjust the 40X style (externally adjustable) trigger down a bit from its factory setting.
I may go a few ounces lower in the future and then again I may just leave it where it is.
On my way out of the ranch I stopped and finished off a box of Hornady 32 gr. factory ammo in a field full of Ground Squirrels!
I missed a couple of the bobbing and weaving little grass rats but I also got one double out of three I tried for.
I began using these rounds up shooting over my large size window sand bag. And it was somewhat "balanced" on the window bag. I was still able to reclaim sight picture nearly instantly after the shot and would see Gopher parts still climbing. For my last several shots though I got out and used my large "X" type "clamping" bag over the hood of the VarmintMobile. This method DOES allow for full identification of hit results!
Once the Hornady factory ammo was used up I got out my 17 HMR's (my Ruger 77/17 V/T and my Smith and Wesson Model 647 revolver). I shot about 40 more Gophers and decided to call it a day!
On the 20 mile drive home I saw some more new fawn Antelope. I again grimaced as the temperature was 49 degrees then and the winds and rains are predicted to increase in the near future! I hope the newborns will survive this bout of bad weather! I saw many Whitetail Deer out feeding on the drive home but no fawns were observed with them.
I really am impressed with this new XR-100! I could not be happier with it! I consider it money well invested! Or spent - as I will surely not sell this one! Its a keeper for sure.
Long live the 204!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

GHD,

Sorry I got behind...June Bugs are great, but the Japanese beetles are the real challenge....gotta pull out the Crossman for them husky critters!! We're just starting to get in to night ops with the fire flys coming out too.....isn't summer wonderful. BTW are you close to Massautten, VA?

Hi VG:

Sounds like the XR-100 is shooting great. I got all my handload parts I needed for the 204 Ruger and loaded up 20 rounds of H4895 with 40 grain Berger Bullets. I really want to try the 35 grain Berger Bullets.

My Gunsmith, like I stated before is a long range shooting fanatic. He even did ultra sound testing on the Berger bullets, said nothing else came even close.

Anyway, I think my loads my be a bit hot for H4895.... I will let you know how I make out. Does Cabelas sell AA2230?... I went over to Army Navy and they don't carry it. Also does it come in one pound containers like Hodgon?

Regards... Jim P.

VG,

That's interesting reporting on the does in your neck of the woods. I plant a food plot about 200 yards behind my house and it is full of fat does (19 right now) just ready to drop fawns. We had 4 or 5 sets of twins last year and I expect the same this year. Big problem back here is the cars get a lot of fawns the first summer. We also loose a bunch laying in the wheat when the combines start cutting.

Also interesting about the mange in the fox population. We have it too, but there is still an over abundance of the little critter here. They have almost wiped out the rabbits in some areas and between the fox and the hawks, the wild turkey population is really suffering too. Quail are gone completely. DNR has stocked quail twice around my place and they are here in the spring and gone by October. We have a fairly serious rabies problem too, so I'm not too easy on them.

It sounds like your XR-100 is a keeper for sure!! I have an Encore in .204 and I love it. I stopped using the .22-250s and .223 since I got the .204. I still carry my K-Hornet in the truck with me. I love using the .204 in the fields since I don't need to worry about rounds bouncing off of anything. I'm running 1/2 - 5/8" groups which I'm happy with and works fine on crows.,....I'm with you ...long live the .204!!

lowrider, I'm only about 2 hours south of Massunutten.....my biggest dealer(seed corn and alfalfa) is in Harrisonburg, VA !!! Up that way a bunch of times a year!!! ......will probably be that way this coming week!!! Better this time of year than later!!!......ain't no amount of money going to get my fat ass on the slopes!!!!!!hahahahhahahahhahahahhaha PM me if you want to meet up!!! Charlie (GHD)

GHD,

Guess I don't know how to PM. We have a time share at Massunutten and I haven't been there for 7 years, and was thinking about using a week there this summer. I was wondering if it was worth taking the .204 down with me and chase hogs for a day. Most of the folks around here won't let "outsiders" hunt anymore, so it is probably the same down there.

Don't worry!! You won't see my fat ass on the hills in the snow either unless it is to hunt something. I'd take my bike down too, so I might need an excuse to go for a ride one day. I'll let you know we deciede to go and thanks for the offer!!