I want to take my 8 year old daughter hunting deer this year. She is mature enough, and she listens. I have a spot that will give her archery range shots, and a two man ladder stand.

She shoots her pink Cricket well, but she is not strong enough to shoot any of my centerfires offhand. She lacks the arm strength to hold them up. My dilema, Do I let her hunt, but only take rested shots, like from the shooting rail? Do I make her train with weights? Do I wait until she is strong enough to properly hold the gun?

More importantly, How did you handle this with your kids?

Thanks

I've thought about it, and it boils down to one answer. Let her take shots with the rifle supported, such as on the rail, or other means of support. Even if she can hold the rifle up offhand the rail will help with accuracy. Heck, I use it when available. I say that because I'm sure it means a lot to you, and you're gonna do it anyway, regardless of what I say.

It seems to me, especially with a girl, if you don't get them interested early, by the time they are teens, their minds are elsewhere, and besides, being a grandad, those years are precious. I usually get into a rant about starting kids too young, but I won't do it this time, because I'm sure it means a lot to you.

I'll just say that generally speaking, IMO and thoughtful evaluation of the situation, if it was me and my kids or grandkids, I would take them deer hunting when they qualified by hitting a milk jug filled with water, preferably offhand, at 50 yds, with a 243. Until they could do that, I would deem them to be too young, and unable to hold the rifle up and steady, and also unable to withstand the recoil of a centerfire that's adequated for the job. Until a kid can hit the target at fifty yards, he or she still has a lot to learn, and maybe growing to do. We know the importance of squeezing the trigger, avoiding flinch, waiting for the right moment, shot placment, holding the rifle right, etc., etc. Kids don't know that until taught. In my thinking, they know it when they can demonstrate it. It would be fun teaching a kid who is interested and attentive.

What that translates into is that you get to spend quality time with the kid at the range, practicing, and set goals, which are achievable, and memorable, if the kid is really interested. I mention the milk jugs filled with water, because the kid can save them up, and they are fun to shoot, even for adults, and they make quite an impression as to what a centerfire can do. You may not have a place to go for that. As a farm boy, I had plenty of big fields out in the country to shoot with no worry of disturbing anyone. At one time, I used to shoot the jugs offhand at 200 and 300 yds for practice at technique. As I recall, back then the jugs weren't plastic, nor actually all milk containers. I used about anything that was a container, quart, 1/2 gallon or gallon - didn't matter, antifreeze cans or jugs, other containers that farm chemicals came in, anything I could scrounge up that would hold water.

You didn't mention her shooting the centerfires. Practice is good, and practice with a rest (if that's what you're gonna do) in a similar setup as the stand would be even better.

It seems to me that nowadays folks are starting their kids much younger than me and other kids I knew when I started. As I remember it was about age 11 or 12 before my dad would let us use the 22. Until I was old enough to earn money and buy my own rifle (college age) the only center fire we had was a '98 Mauser in 8x57 - a war relic. I couldn't shoot it anyway, because it kicked too much. Dad wouldn't buy ammo for it, so the ammo we shot was surplus corrosive stuff, which ruined the rifle, since we didn't know to clean it thoroughly. There were few deer at that time. I just used my 870 in 12 gauge with buckshot, (it kicked too) until I got a 243, which was probably about age 27, after I got out of the Navy.

KB

I waited until my son could at least hold up the rifle on his own, but i still try to limit him to rested shots. He's ten now and I will let him shoot this year, but honestly it's the first year that I felt good about him and his muscle strength in aiming and shooting under field conditions. I purchased a Tikka T3 in 243 win, which is about as light of recoil that I could find for a centerfire hunting rifle.

Bottom line, you know your kids better than we do, they're all differnet and judging by the fact that you had to ask tells me that you know what the answer is, for your daughter.

Good luck, I've taken my son hunting and sometimes it's like having a marching band in the tree with me. Other times he can sit still for hours.

When my son was picked for an elk hunt 3 years ago, there were 1 9-yr old an 2 11 yr old girls on the hunt... the 1st elk taken was by one of the 11-yr old girls... so it depends on the individual child... in ANY case have her practice from the FIELD position that she will be taking... I have faith in little girls... My daughter cleaned the elk that my son shot... Shooting sticks are a good idea. My son used a branch of a fir tree... 3 or 4 (or more) boxes of ammo down the tube before you go helps a lot also. A semi-auto in .243 or even .308 (BAR?) seem to spread out the recoil... or at least it didn't intimidate my little son (119 lbs). HTH

I have taken quite a few 8 to 12 year old kids deer hunting and I mostly used a NEF single barrel 44 magnum with an AR-15 colapsable stock and a 1.5 X 5 Leupold scope on it. When we practiced we used 44 Special ammo which is quiet and doesn't kick. Always make sure kids have good ear protection. I also use a steel deer target that gives them a clang and a big black mark when they hit it. I do let them use a supported rest to shoot from. I have used anything from 223 to 350 Rem mag for young kids with loaded down ammo. With the 44 magnum I slip in a full house load when hunting and very few have noticed the difference in kick from the specials. Actually forgot the magnums one time and the kid shot a deer at 75 yards with a 200 grain 44 special. This deer was hit through the shoulders and dropped in its tracks. A well placed slow bullet does much better than a poorly placed high velocity bullet. Never had a kid lose a deer that they hit. Let the kids shoot a lot and make sure they have fun. The more they like it the better they will do.

Sam

There's more to hunting than shooting! Personally at that age I'd take her and YOUR gun but no gun for her.

I'd explain what you are after, how you will get it, why you do it that way. I'd suggest that she be the one that you let identify the animal you want to shoot and for her to tell you when or when is not a good time to shoot.

Ask her why if the deer was there it would be a safe shot or an unsafe shot and why. have her estimate ranges from your stand to various fixed objects. As her if that object is too far or just right. That sort of thing.

Then once it is shot do all the rest. Clean and carry it out etc.

But let her shoot? No not yet until she's been on maybe a couple of "hunts" without a gun so that at first she learns than without the added complication of "gun safety" whilst hunting.

Then from there to maybe shooting at deer targets (either with a full size target and rifle or a half size target and a .22) so that she learns shot placement.

The real worry is that at the end of it all you can't see what she sees through the 'scope when she finally takes that first shot on a live deer.

That's why, I believe, work on lifelike deer targets is so valuable.

And maybe finally the goal of when she can on three separate times on three different days put three shots on a full size deer target at the usual range you shoot into a 3" "killing area" then she can hunt.

My two oldest boys were 9 & 10 when I got them each a 22 Magnum and started them rabit hunting in Colorado. Even with nobody around for miles I never felt comfortable. When excitement set in safety seam to disappear. At that timethe minimum age for deer hunting was 14.
Two years in a row I had the opportunity to hunt with 14 year olds and both were top notch.
Brent Ponsford was the first. Last day of the hunt he asked to borrow my 22-250 with barnes 70 gr. bullets. His father had gotten him a mod 94 , 30-30 and he was slightly built and he would flinch. I had tought him to shoot with the 22 (actually) Varminter and he was good with it. I told him if his dad didn't mind it was ok with me but I only have one cartridge left. He said that was all he needed. He eased my concern when he brought back a two point 45 min. latter.
The second lad's name escapes me after 44 years. This boy was a teen age rodeo champ out of Gleanwoodsprings. His dad owned a tac shop there.We were riding our hoses in deep snow at about 9500 ft. His dad desided to ride through the black timber and the lad and I went around it and up within 10 minutes a 6 point buck came bouncing out of the timber quartering toward us. I got of my horse and put two bullets in him. Didn't even slow him. The boy shot once with his mod. 94 30-30.He got into a small stand of quakies about 50 yards away and just stood and looked at us. We were both ready to shoot agin when he just sat down. I told the younster I was going to have a cigarette and then I'll ride a little of to the right and up. Told him to start walking straight forward toward him and if he jumps up shoot him in the neck. I got up even with the buck and the boy got within 25 yards. The buck jumped up and a 30 caliber bullet stretched out the skin on his neck on the far side. When dressing him out we saw wherenmy bullets, all though well plsed created horrible surface wounds. I was using a 6mm x .270 IMP with 105 grain Speer bullets. Ran out of my Barnes bullets. Anyway the kid handled it like a champ and with a little help cleaned his first deer.
I don't think either of these youngsters would have done as well if they were any younger.
I really think with youngsters it's a crap shoot. It's a gut call weither they can handle it or not. You are the one to make that call. roger

I'll keep it simple ; IMO 12-14 is the right average age of when boys an girls have the proper strength and

poise to hunt and maintain their composure . 8-11 is for .22 an occasionally other mild recoil target practice .

It's just an observation while hunting with an extended group of fathers and mothers .

Emotionally and physically Kids mature at different rates but patience comes from time of development !!!

Jason,

I'm all for it! If you consider your 8-year older ready - do it! Both you & her have to know when it's time. Just make it as much fun for her as you're having.

Both my Son & Daughter were very interested in hunting from as early as they could toddle along and we had plenty of enjoyable expereinces but the vast majority were as Observers, Bird Picker-Uppers and loving companions - we had a blast. Daughter's interest eventually (actually quickly) ran dry and my Son's still going strong. I wasn't fortunate enough to have more than one rifle at the time; so I used 180 gr. cast lead bullets loaded with Unique instead of the Super-Slammers w/240 grain Sierra's and a case full of WW-296 in the Marlin 1894 .44 Mag. Carbine (open sights). My only other firearm; a L/H'd Remington 870 .12 gauge was out of the question in their tender years.

The Mrs. (Ex) was the largest obstacle but that's one of the myriad of reasons why she got replaced by a New-Improved Version anyway.

My Buddy (Stateside) has his 11 year old daughter doing fine with a .243 Win. T/C Encore with a cheap-o buttstock lopped off, shooting from a rest and consider this firearm the perfect Youth development platform (Handi's also). If the .243 Win. is too much, a .223 Rem. or downloaded .308 Win., .357 or .44 Mag. with .38 Spl. or .44 Spl. loads have potential as well. It's all about bullet placement anyway, as long as it's legal in your State.

Have Fun!

I killed my first deer..a desert mule deer in 1949, I was seven years old. Used a rem 722...257 roberts..My son killed his first deer at age seven, thirty years ago, with a 22-250. We've killed a lot of critters together in the last thirty years [on two continents] and look forward to a lot more. I was taught to be self sufficent early, and tried to teach my son the same. He is now very successful in his profession, and a fine family man.

I agree with Enfieldspares and Doc224. Let her be a little girl for a while longer.

There's nothing wrong with taking a rested shot! Hell, that's almost always the way I shoot at game myself.

Don't make your youngster strain to shoot an oversized (for her) gun. Find an aftermarket or take-off stock for whatever (small) caliber centerfire you intend for her to shoot and cut it to the right length. Leave the butt bare -- as she grows you can add a recoil pad to extend the length. Make sure the scope is mounted in the lowest possible position and that the stock has an adequately high comb, because kid's faces are thinner than adults which makes it difficult for them to place their faces properly on the stock and still see the sight picture through the scope. If the gun has a short barrel, this will help with proportion and balance.

By all means, make sure she always wears ear protection when shooting a centerfire rifle of any kind. Novice shooters are much more sensitive to muzzle blast than to recoil. It is the muzzle blast, not the recoil, that causes them to develop a flinch.

Good luck with your daughter. I started both my son and my grandson deer hunting at age 7. Unfortunately, my daughters didn't care for it, but again, they certainly weren't required to and that's just fine.

For shots other than your stand, get a set of african style sticks. They worked great for my son when he was younger and he still prefers them now.

I posted this on the euro forum a while ago.

This design of sticks may help you out with your youngster.

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
Thanks to all that helped.

I couldn’t bring myself to spend £85 of hard earned money on shooting sticks, so I made my own.

Below are some pictures of the finished article, they were simple to make and cost less that £5.

You will need,

Green Garden Canes 1800mm x 16mm, 1700mm x 11mm.
Bungee Rope
O rings, Bike Inner Tube or Bridle Rope

Most of you will have seen Bipod stalking sticks using garden canes.
Simply make two sets of these,


By joining the sticks with either large o rings, inner tube or a bridle rubber you will be able to adjust he height to allow for sitting shots.

You may think this is not necessary as the support you get when using these is as good as when prone, but do you really want to stand for 2 hours waiting for the elusive buck to show up.


Join both sets together at the bottom using 3/8 bungee rope, go around the sticks 3 times this will make them sufficiently stiff to work as a bipod for quick shots.



I found I needed to shorten one of the 4 poles to make for a more comfortable shooting position.



The sticks work great as a normal bipod sticks and have the benefit of being ultra stable when fully deployed for those longer range shots.





You will need to practice the use of them to get the full benefit them, and some range time to assess your abilities with them.

I am 6” 5’ and found I needed to use 1800mm x 16mm Green garden canes to be able to use them as a bipod, if you are shorter you are lucky enough to be able to use 1700mm x 11mm which makes a lighter smaller set of sticks.

I have used single, bipod and tripod sticks over the years but these are by far the best I have used so far.

Get her a rifle that fits---both physically fits and the recoil fits. Don't expose her to too much recoil!!! Here in Texas .22 centerfires are legal and they work. Many say they don't, but for the most part they seem to be those that have not been there and done that. From a lot of actual experience, I say they work. If you can come up with an extra stock that you cut down and keep the original uncut for a few years down the road is the best way to go. My grandson started shooting at 7 and took his first deer at age 9. Back then my 600 Rem in .222 was his favorite. At age 11 he started using .243. When he was 16 I gave him a .308 in Win 88 --certainly not that the .243 wasn't more than ample---I had the Win 88 in .308 and thought he would like it. I was right. That gun is "magic" with him. He is now 21 and has taken lots of deer. Last year I gave him a .222 in Rem 600--I wound up with two of them--he got a spike with it--I guess for old times sake. Old time's sake at 21. Yes take your daughter shooting and hunting. Last year my great nephew age 11 also got his first deer with my Rem 600 in .222 and his dad then got him a CZ in .223 and he got a deer with it first day he had it. BTW these deer with .22 centerfires are NOT using premium bullets--Winchester bulk packed 55 grainers----put em right spot and get your knife out--fun is over and work begins.

I started taking my oldest daughter with me last year to sit in the stand, she was seven. We did not bring her a gun, she just came to be with Dad and sit in the stand. We whispered, hugged, had fun, and ate a lot of snacks. The only deer we saw were out of range, but she enjoyed the ride out in the UTV, and coming back through the woods at night, and stopping at the local greasy spoon for dinner with Dad. She is looking forward to going back this season. She is not shooting a gun yet. She was exposed to archery at summer camp this year so I got her a pink bow and we are working on that right now. I do have a little Henry Mini-Bolt for her with an orange stock (she picked the color). We haven't shot it yet just because she is petite and it's still a little long for her. These are precious times, I hope you enjoy them as much as I am, when I get the eight-year-old on the way I get to do it again with my four-year-old!

I built a 6 TCU on a mini MkX and MPI stock. It fit the kids and they shot it well, but I still would only let them shoot from a rest. Take them out and watch deer, talk about where you would aim on a live deer. I, nor the kids I've taken have ever regretted one minuete spent even just sitting and watching, there's just so much to see while in the woods.
If you go with a NEF, I've got a bunch of buttstocks, you can have one to whittle down to a perfect fit, which would help alot.

It all depends on the individual child. My oldest daughter killed her first deer a month after her seventh birthday, 110 yard shot thru the shoulder...off a rest of course. 6mm Remington 600. Her lil sister shot 2" groups at 100 yards off a rest when she was six, but she never wanted to kill anything. She would go along with us and watch, but no killing for her. Her son hunts now.

My youngest daughter hunted when she was two, killed her first deer when eight, first turkey at seven. Her son Dylan has hunted with me since I could carry him before he was two. He turkey hunted with his grandmother(my wife) when he was two. He was in the tree stand with me at eighteen months old when I killed a 160" buck with a bow. He helped drag it out...some. He called his first turkey at age three...which I promptly missed.

Dylan has been shooting since he was two and has been in on over twenty deer kills. He's four now. He killed a nice stag when he was three and a half with a youth stocked 243 Win. He now has a youth stocked, bull barreled 223 he shoots with out any help...accurately.

Depends on the instructor, the child, the training, etc. Don't push em and don't over gun em... and above all make it fun. Enjoy.

troy

IMO, waaaaaayyy to young. But you know your kid (s) better than me and for that matter anyone else here. Ultimately you have the burden to make the decision on your own. I have read headlines where it said: "9 year boy hurt while hunting with his father". The first thing that goes through everyone's mind is, "what the hell is a 9 year old doing hunting"? We all want what's best for our kids and without pause we will put our lives on the line to protect them from hurt. What is the proper age to discuss sex?, What is the proper age to give your son a beer and hang out?, What is the proper age to turn your son or daughter lose on the ATV? The list goes on and I think we all can agree that maturity and responsibility has no age preference but rather all kids are different. One thing that I think is universal is how and when does a child understand consequences or the long term effects of their actions. This to me is number one and I don't think kids even at 18 or 19 fully understand this. To me this can be deadly. Does a child fully understand that when you run the dog over, he's gone forever and that you can't take the bullet back once the trigger of that unloaded gun has been pulled? Or if you hit someone upside the head just for fun, that person may have thinning blood or another issue that will make him/her hemorrhage to death? As adults we still struggle with these issues and if for one second we think our kids understand this we are in deep trouble! Kids can learn to sit, jump, take the trash out, clean your room, brush your teeth etc,. but do they really no why?

Just my 2 cents.

quote:

One thing that I think is universal is how and when does a child understand consequences or the long term effects of their actions.

I believe this is very important. I have no criticism of anyone who starts their child hunting at any age. However, I do not think it wise to start a child until they are mature enough to understand and appreciate the concept and permanence of death.

For one thing, it is somewhat meaningless to the child to have an animal fall, inanimate, to the ground unless the child understood beforehand that the deer was a living, breathing thing and the consequence of shooting it is to take its life from its possession to your possession.

It is not so much the physical capability of the child as it is the child's mental capacity that dictates when the child is ready to hunt.

I think this is very important. And with all of the violence on TV and in the movies, it may be hard for a kid to realize that you can't just call "time out" or hit reset and everybody gets up and goes to lunch.
When my kids were small, I had them shoot a variety of boards, melon, and fruit to show just how powerful even a .22 is. I equated the damage to the fruit to what it would do to a human. I also impressed on them that in real life, dead is forever.

The kids had to be twelve here in Idaho, or very close to take Hunter Safety. I taught classes for years with the local R&G Club. We made a deal, that stands today. They max the course, we go shopping for a good deer rifle. .243's seem to be the choice. My one nephew and I are running cows over in Oregon, he has four girls. My Ruger 77/22H has been at their house since the oldest was eleven. Dang girls! They had upstairs bedrooms facing the barn. They would shoot coyotes out the window for the pelt money. By time we'd go shopping they were pretty good at it.
Does your girl shoot 22 much?

When she can hit playing cards at 50 yards off a rest she is ready to go!

And, THANK YOU!! for being a good Father to her.

regards,

Rich