I was at the range today with my son. We were shooting my M700 VS in .223. Easily kept 50 rounds of Blackhills 52 gr. match in an inch at 100 yards. This is about all we can hold with the makeshift bench rests we were using. Then started shooting my handloaded Hornady vmax loads and each ten shot string would group into two groups about 4" apart. There was no "stringing". The rounds would randomly go into one group or the other. I don't think it's the scope (Nikon). I did not clean for 100 rounds and I think that may be it.

How often do you folks clean while shooting?

Is there a procedure you use to keep fouling down as you shoot long strings?

I'm getting lots of carbon fouling out now but surprisingly little copper. I'm alternating Hoppes and Wipe Out foam.

BTW this bore is smooth, It's been fire lapped with a Tubb bullets kit.

Citori,

I gotta ask the question: How much time are you allowing between shots for cooling? I have one rifle that will put three rounds together and the next three will shoot 3" low if I don't allow enough cooling time.

I don't clean at the range. Normally speaking, I don't shoot more than 25 rounds or so from any of my rifles at a sitting (exception: .22 LR and my AR). I rotate my rifles: 3 rounds, 3 minutes - then pick up a fresh rifle... I normally take 4 rifles to the range so that means I'm only shooting 3 rounds per rifle per 16 minutes or so.

Or, roughly, 9-12 rounds per rifle per hour.

Figure a max of a 3 hour range session. Add line breaks. You get the idea.

So, cleaning. Every other range session. I'll wipe the rifles down before I Safe them, but I don't clean the bores but every 50-75 rounds. When I do clean, I primarily use Kroil - brush three times with soaked brush, run three wet patches through the rifle, two dry patches.

And then it's to the safe.

Yep, I keep my cleaning simple. Does it work?



Yeah. This is typical. The rifle has around 400 rounds through it at this point - and it just keeps shooting better and better.

Keep it simple.

If I was at the range and needed to clean, I'd run a couple brush strokes...a few wet patches...and a couple dry patches and call it good. Remember, first 3 rounds or so are fouling shots. Don't expect them to shoot dead on.

Two impact points usually means scope or bedding has gone bad.
Did you try the Blackhills load after you noted the problem?
A hot barrel will usually string the shots, not produce two distinct groups. Same for fouling.

muck

Muck,
I was out of the black hills when the problem arose. I agree that it sounds like scope or bedding but I have a feeling that wasn't it. Stock has a full length aluminum bedding block. Scope was doing well up til then.

rnovi,
I'm a fan of Kroil too. I like your routine.

I've cleaned thoroughly. We'll try again this weekend.

I don't clean at the range either, personally it is unusual that a rifle needs cleaned, even one that fouls badly will go 20 shots or so before it makes a difference.

Back at the range last weekend with my oldest son. 30 rounds, we kept them all in 3/4" 5 shot groups. Whatever was wrong is fixed.

This has happened to me a number of times. Will shot ten shots into two 1/2" groups 2" apart. Always thought it might be related to my reloading procedure or component variance???

Always thought the real answer may be hard to document and proove. roger

A clean or dirty bore should not make that much difference..Usually a dirty bore will open the group a bit, but nothing in the gun world is written in stone..

Inasmuch as your getting two groups, I would bet money that your rifle is moving in the wood between two points as it settles down between shots..I would check the screws and see if its loose in the stock first, if not then I would glass bed the rifle and that should fix it.

Ray,

It's a synthetic stock with a full length aluminum bedding block.

Whatever the issue was, it's gone away.