I was offered a trade for my sporterized Mauser 25-06 Varmit build for a .257 weatherby vangaurd. How does the .257 weatherby mag compare to the 25-06 at longer ranges and is there anything else to know about the weatherby's? Also how is the weatherby vangaurd as a platform to build on.

I believe the vanguard only has a 24". For my $ a 257Wby needs 26"+. From limted testing of 2 rifles both 24" using 115gr bullets. The Wby gave me 100-150 fps but required 15-20grs more powder to do it.

Not really a trade I would do unless I was simply looking for something new.

As to buildng on the Vanguard it is basically the Howa. Ok push feed action but metric barrel threads.

257wm I had was with a custom barrel. it had a short throat and i really never did get it group very well.
Dave

I just don't like how loose the mauser action is on my 25-06 and bases are hard to find ones that fit right and are solid.

On the military actions I mill off the hump and use a 2 piece base for the mount I fit the bases to the action by sanding and fileing.
the wobley bolt is someting to get use to.
Dave

So you still the the sporterized Mauser 25-06 is the better choice for long range accuracy?

I have a Vanguard in 257 Weatherby that is a great shooter. It is easy to get 3500 fps with 100 gr. bullets and fac. 100 gr. ammo chrono'd at a little over 3500. I have not worked with any 110's or 115 gr. bullets. All in all I like the Vanguard.

My opinion is that there is just to little gain with the magnum 120gr bullets for longer distances. you are not going to gain only about 150f/s velocity and energy will be the same maybe slightly more with the magnum.
with the 100gr bullets you will gain more velocity but at longer ranges you will loose the energy.
what ranges and game do you intend to use them for?

Dave

Aoudad which have super tough hide and breaking shoulders is the only shot to take. Most shots are 250-400 yards but occasionally 500-600 yards shots when backing someone up after a 300 yard shot

for those kind of shots you probably need all the help you can get. I have never hunted sheep so i am not a very good judge. how do they compare to northern white tail?
I have used the 25/06 on deer up to 300 yrs with good results using a 100gr noslet BT. and good shot placement they dont go very far.
i use a 270 140gr or 130gr bullets, for my hunting and usually drop then in there tracks.
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by aoudadhunter:
Aoudad which have super tough hide and breaking shoulders is the only shot to take. Most shots are 250-400 yards but occasionally 500-600 yards shots when backing someone up after a 300 yard shot

I think I'd be tempted to move up to one of the .300 magnums under those conditions. Especially for the long shots.

Well,

The 25-06 was the first rifle I bought with "my money" at a whopping 12 years of age. I shot a boat load of whitetail deer with it., but that being said--I bought a 257 weatherby in a accumark to replace my ol Ruger 77 when a graduated high school. I still shoot a deer or two every other year or so with the accumark..

My wife took her blaser with a 257 WBY barrel to south africa 2 years ago and shot a pile of game with it. I only load 115 grain nosler part. in the 25-06 and 257 and a get great results.

One of my wifes kills with a 257 WBY:




Old pic of one of my first deer with a 25-06 some time in the mid 80's Ahhh brings back good times...still works today!!



I love the quarter bores!!
Ed

Ed, are you the one sitting on the truck, or the one cradled in someone's arms? If the latter, you sure DID start young :-)

No Biebs the one setting, I think this is 87 or 88, I shot this little fork horn out of our pecan orchard at about 125-130 yards, I shot the turkey as I was cleaning the deer. I shot the turkey at about 150 yards...but we could not find a wound on the body..my big brother is giving me crap for scaring it to death...good times!!!

That's a nice impala. Birds don't take much of a hit from high velocity bullets to finish them off. Years ago I hit a crow at around 300 yards with an 87gn Hornady out of my .25/06, the bird flew off and then fell out of the sky a few seconds later. All I found on it was a slight graze mark on its back.

I don't see much practical difference between the 25 & the 257, they both work really well. I would think the 25 is cheaper to shoot. For my $, and your application, if I wanted a little more than a 25, I'd step up to a 264 WM.

My 264 has accounted for numerous Doodads, deer, and elk and I have never felt undergunned. Even took it to africa a few years ago and shot duikers with it. (I'll never forget my PH's comment when I shot my Klipspringer. Instead of the common "good shot", my PH said "You Hit It!" in a very surprised voice. I replied, "Wasn't that what I was supposed to do?" We both had a good laugh later on and he's now shooting a 264 WM)

Not trying to change the subject, but a 6.5 has higher BC, higher bullet weight, and better SD than the 25. I've owned 25s but always traded them because I thought the 6.5 is a better tool.

I have both of these quarter bores, the 25-06 being my first centerfire, bought in 1974. I still have it. Its a Rem 700 ADL that is quite accurate. It has accounted for about 20 whitetails, 8-10 prong horn and a few varmints. It is a great rifle/cartridge.
My 257 wby is a custom, sako action, Mcmillan stock, lilja 26.5" barrel. I have only had this one about ten years. It has accounted for several mule deer and 8-10 pronghorn, also one very unlucky coyote that thought he was out of range at 510 lasered yards.
If I were to have only one of these it would be the weatherby, for the little bit of extra velocity.
If burning too much powder bothers some, there is always the 257R or 250-3000.
And I would shy away from a 257 wby with a barrel shorter than 26".
You can't go wrong though withe either a 25-06 or 257 wby.
good luck.

I've had a couple of both. Logic tells me that theres a great deal of over-lap, that what one can do at a given range the other will do 100 farther out. The extra powder costs a whole nickel a shot, and while there is a difference in recoil it doesn't amount to much either way.

That's me being logical. My kid on the other hand, thinks that his .257 is a magical one shot death-ray that stacks deer and kills moose about as fast. I don't see any reason to straighten him out on that, and couldn't do it with field observation.

I've owned both. For what it's worth, my .257 Weatherby is one of the most accurate rifles I own and, it is indeed a "death ray." However, and this is a big however, it absolutely destroys meat within 100 yards.

I don't have either one. That said, my thinking is, the ranges at which the Wby would actually give a meaningful advantage are probably beyond what most hunters should be shooting at anyway.

Also, it's wise take into consideration the law of diminishing returns. Sure, you get a couple hundred extra fps, but what cost? Lots more powder, plus the muzzle blast to go with it, so that you can drive bullets so fast they shoot up your meat? No thanks.

For all the talk of a gun being a "death-ray," that has to do far more with having an accurate load and a good shooter. I know of a Remington 788 chambered in 308 Win. which was purchased used, including a scope, for $200, and it kills pretty much everything it gets aimed at!

Go for it if you want to, but not my cup of tea.

quote:

Originally posted by Davis Goertzen:
I don't have either one. That said, my thinking is, the ranges at which the Wby would actually give a meaningful advantage are probably beyond what most hunters should be shooting at anyway.

Also, it's wise take into consideration the law of diminishing returns. Sure, you get a couple hundred extra fps, but what cost? Lots more powder, plus the muzzle blast to go with it, so that you can drive bullets so fast they shoot up your meat? No thanks.

For all the talk of a gun being a "death-ray," that has to do far more with having an accurate load and a good shooter. I know of a Remington 788 chambered in 308 Win. which was purchased used, including a scope, for $200, and it kills pretty much everything it gets aimed at!

Go for it if you want to, but not my cup of tea.

You seem to know an awful lot about the performance of a cartridge you never owned or used on game, an odd post? FS

So true. Apparently he misses the whole point of the phrase "death ray". For those who actually have game killing experience with the .257 Weatherby - I own two and sold a third years ago - the phrase means the ability to kill game very quickly. High velocity bullets which dump all their energy inside the animal can result in very quick kills. Unlike the .22-250 or the .220 Swift, the .257 Weatherby has the bullet weight to provide adequate penetration and high energy at the same velocity, and many of the .257" bullets behave softly enough at .257 velocities to open up fast. The result is often "death ray"-like performance.

But since he lacks experience in the matter, he really is better off with his $200 M788 - no harm in that at all. My own M788 is chambered to 6mm Renmington and it kills deer okay - just not like my .257s do.


.

instead of going to the expensive weatherby brass i'd just ackley the 0-6 and gain the other 5% powder volume.
i'm thinking for the intended purpose i'd not be using the 25 cal and step up to the 270 or 280

quote:

Originally posted by Fasteel:

quote:

Originally posted by Davis Goertzen:
I don't have either one. That said, my thinking is, the ranges at which the Wby would actually give a meaningful advantage are probably beyond what most hunters should be shooting at anyway.

Also, it's wise take into consideration the law of diminishing returns. Sure, you get a couple hundred extra fps, but what cost? Lots more powder, plus the muzzle blast to go with it, so that you can drive bullets so fast they shoot up your meat? No thanks.

For all the talk of a gun being a "death-ray," that has to do far more with having an accurate load and a good shooter. I know of a Remington 788 chambered in 308 Win. which was purchased used, including a scope, for $200, and it kills pretty much everything it gets aimed at!

Go for it if you want to, but not my cup of tea.

You seem to know an awful lot about the performance of a cartridge you never owned or used on game, an odd post? FS

Valid point sir, and I don't want to come across as someone who just spouts information without any basis for it. Perhaps I owe it to you to attempt to explain myself. Here are the claims I made.

1. I doubted that the 257 Wby would give a meaningful advantage 25-06 at the ranges most hunters should be shooting at. Please note the words "most" and "should."

Can you prove me wrong? If there is such a situation, I'd like to hear about it.

2. Law of diminishing returns, aka lots more powder without corresponding increase in speed.

I went to Nosler's online loading data and look at the 25-06 and 257 Wby, comparing the same powders in the same bullet weights. I found that it's an increase of roughly 13-15 grains of powder, for 180-250 fps. If you're fine with that, do whatever floats your boat; it's just not worth it to me.

3. Muzzle blast.

This one I have no hard proof for, but doesn't it stand to reason that when you burn that much extra powder, you'd get a lot more blast? Perhaps I may be a little out on this one.

4. Shooting up meat.

From the post above mine,

quote:

However, and this is a big however, it absolutely destroys meat within 100 yards.

Consider also the second half of my post below.

To be fair, this could be alleviated to a certain extent with shot placement and selection of tougher bullets; but it would have to be proven to me that it could be negated altogether.

At the end of the day, if someone chooses to use a 257 Wby, there's nothing wrong with that per se and I have nothing against it. However, for me, I can't see the advantages being worth it, for the reasons given above.

If there is proof that I am wrong, I honestly and humbly welcome it.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
So true. Apparently he misses the whole point of the phrase "death ray". For those who actually have game killing experience with the .257 Weatherby - I own two and sold a third years ago - the phrase means the ability to kill game very quickly.

I will freely admit that I was unaware of the use of the term "death ray" in that manner; I was considering that term in light of the ability to reliably and quickly put animals down, which the 308 referred to certainly does. Going by your definition, I would have to agree that a 257 Wby could very likely provide more dramatic kills. Thanks for enlightening me. BTW, if you re-read my first post, I never said the 308 was mine.

On a different note, I find it interesting that your post actually supports my idea of the possibilities ending up with bloodshot meat with a 257 Wby.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
...many of the .257" bullets behave softly enough at .257 velocities to open up fast. The result is often "death ray"-like performance.

When bullets perform softly, you wind up with more expansion and less penetration, which increases the chance for blood-shot meat, particularly if you hit bone. On the other hand, bullets hold together better at slower speeds, which would allow a little more forgiveness in this area. Ever wonder why you hear of some of the European cartridges as having been commonly loaded heavy-for-caliber?

In closing, I sincerely don't want to come across as a cocky, arrogant know-it-all. However, I hope that you won't discount my thoughts just because I don't have some of the same experience you do. Please feel free to correct me if I truly am way off base in something I've said here.

Best regards,
Davis