quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:
Speaking of Modern loading manuals, Sierra's # 5 manual shows the 250-3000 AI going 3,400 with a 90gr. bullet, this is from a 22/250 size case.
Pretty remarkable in my opinion. And this load is shown as their accuracy load!

Stepchild

quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:
Speaking of Modern loading manuals, Sierra's # 5 manual shows the 250-3000 AI going 3,400 with a 90gr. bullet, this is from a 22/250 size case.
Pretty remarkable in my opinion. And this load is shown as their accuracy load!

Stepchild

Paul,
I have never chronographed standard loads but most data shows around 3,700 and my AI going,lets say 4,000 is a step up, a 220 Swift in a shorter case and I don't feel i'm hot rodding it. You wouldn't believe how flat it shoots. To each his own, but it's Ackley Improved for me for the most part.



Stepchild,
The 250-3000 (250 savage) is the parent cartridge for the 22-250. Sierra also lists 3200 fps for the standard 250 savage from a 24 inch barrel while the 3400 fps 250 AI was tested in a 26 inch barrel.

As much as I like and use Sierra products I have found that their rifle velocity listings are, shall we say, optimistic in the extreme. In my rifles the velocities are 200 to 250 fps slower than the velocities listed in their manuals. I would be interested to see if anyone gets the same velocity with the loads listed in the manual.
I have found the opposite to be true in their pistol data as my pistols shoot between 30 and 70 fps faster than the velocities shown in the manual.

Maybe it is just my guns - so I am interested in what others have to say.

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
Stepchild. How much velocity increase do you see from a 257AI, compared to a standard Roberts, loaded to the same pressure?

Who says they have to be loaded to the same pressure? I don't have any way to measure pressure, guess i'll have to take Speers word for it. All I know is cases last a long time and they are very accurate.I know it's hard to believe that a lowly .257Ackley very much improved is faster than most .257 Weatherbys and on less powder. It's called efficiency.
According to Parker Ackley, there is a maximum case size for a given bore size and beyond that it's called overbore capacity, more powder for little return. Parker Ackley was way ahead of most gun experimenters and he admitted that some were not much better than factory.
I also have a 22/250AI that goes 3,998 and shoots .228" groups and kills deer DRT with Sierra 55gr. varmint bullets.
As a side note, Parker Ackley hunted Elk with a .220 Swift, using Ackley Controlled Expansion bullets.



Stepchild

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
Stepchild. How much velocity increase do you see from a 257AI, compared to a standard Roberts, loaded to the same pressure?

Who says they have to be loaded to the same pressure? I don't have any way to measure pressure, guess i'll have to take Speers word for it. All I know is cases last a long time and they are very accurate.I know it's hard to believe that a lowly .257Ackley very much improved is faster than most .257 Weatherbys and on less powder. It's called efficiency.
According to Parker Ackley, there is a maximum case size for a given bore size and beyond that it's called overbore capacity, more powder for little return. Parker Ackley was way ahead of most gun experimenters and he admitted that some were not much better than factory.
I also have a 22/250AI that goes 3,998 and shoots .228" groups and kills deer DRT with Sierra 55gr. varmint bullets.
As a side note, Parker Ackley hunted Elk with a .220 Swift, using Ackley Controlled Expansion bullets.



Stepchild

Thanks for sharing the info. The reason that you would need to load both to the same pressure is to compare the potential of each cartridge. IMO, you can't load one cartridge to a higher pressure than another, and then shoot it in a 27" barrel and declare that it is a far superior cartridge.

If you put a standard Roberts in a 27" barrel, and loaded it to the same pressure as your AI, the bob would come pretty close.

You mentioned Speer #8 listed 57gr of N205 as max. Speer #9 lists 54gr as max. Maybe they learned something.

And Speer #10 with the standard Bob shows 3292fps with a 100gr bullet. I've had no problem getting 3250fps from a standard Roberts and a 24" barrel (in a pre64 with a short magazine and a short throat). Stretch the barrel to 27+ inches, and I bet it would be pretty dang close to your load.

Olarmy,
As far as the reloading manuals of today, They are written by the company lawyers to avoid law suits. There are gun owners out there that could screw up an anvil, a little common sence helps a bunch.
I use loading manuals as a starting point and go from there, using accuracy as the most important and velocity as secondary but when the two come together, it's a beautiful thing!
Thanks for the reply and keeping it civil. I have nothing at all against a .257 Roberts.
Ray Atkinson and many others have killed game with a 25/20 and 30/30's just not my style.
One time, out side of Buffalo,Wy, my cousin shot at a rather large Mule Deer and the bullet hit 10-15' in front if the deer an it presented another broad side shot, I sat down and held on the spine and down he went, I don't know what he had loaded in his Roberts but my Ackley on that occasion shot much flatter using 57gr of MRP and a 100gr.Sierra spitzer. This deer was around 500 yards, no exageration.
To each his own, But for me it's Ackley, now on the other hand, I had built a 243AI and didn't expect much velocity improvement because the case didn't have much taper to it but my Cousin had the reamer and it seemed like the thing to do.
The best to you and yours.

Stepchild


I love my AI's, but when compared fairly, they aren't THAT much better than the standard. Sure is nice to "never" have to trim brass, tho.

quote:

Originally posted by GunTruck:
I us Norma MRP and RL22 in my standard
257 Roberts. I,m Getting 3130 fps with
either powder. I was using 110 gr Accubonds.

quote:

Originally posted by R-WEST:
Go Ramblers!!

Those 115's should certainly work well for you, albeit kinda' expensive for fireforming use..

I was lucky enough to score a box of 500 Rem. 100 C-L's back when component prices were reasonable that I use for fireforming; I use a middling load of W748 in my 700 that was re-barreled (Douglas barrel) by Mr. Dobson years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by stepchild 2:
I don't have any way to measure pressure,

Stepchild