Loner
I have been shooting for several years but mostly just plinking around. Only recently have I become interested in getting better accuracy from my rifles for target shooting/varmint hunting. I would like to learn all that I can about shooting and gunsmithing. I thought this would be a good place to start, guess I'll look elsewhere. Thanks for the sources. Do you know of any good books that I could start with for gunsmithing or making an accurate rifle? Any ideas would be great. About the extent of my knowledge of the internal workings of a firearm is from taking apart my marlin semi-auto rifle and just learning how it works by looking at it.

Bug,
Thanks for the info on the triggers, I believe mine has the accu-trigger since it is new, I'll take a look at it to verify.

RM...

A new trigger (of course, all depending on what you had before), can help considerably in bringing your groups closer together. While there are many variables that contribute to accuracy, often stock triggers are set at a very high pull weight from the factory. Often, the extra effort needed to fire the rifle is just enough to pull the rifle slightly off target. An aftermarket trigger usually has a lighter pull weight than stock (or is usually adjustable). In addition, often undesirable things like "creep" are also fixed with a different trigger. Creep is the play or slack taken up by the trigger prior to engagement of the sear. Generally, you want no creep at all, if possible. If you have a model with the AccuTrigger, you don't need an aftermarket trigger. As far as I can see on Savage's site, all of the Model 10s come with the Accu-Trigger now. If you bought it used, that is a different story. The AccuTrigger is easy to tell from a standard trigger -- it has a metal insert in the middle of the trigger, which must be fully depressed before the trigger sear is disengaged, allowing the rifle to fire. Savage refers to this process as AccuRelease...

Anyway, I made the following changes to my pre-AccuTrigger 12FVSS Savage...I installed the SharpShooter trigger, which was a marked improvement. The stock was REALLY flimsy, so I got a Choate Ulimate Varmint stock with a full length aluminum bedding block. I essentially converted my rifle from a 12FVSS to a 12VSS. While some may think this looks ugly (I wasn't crazy about the look at first, either), I don't think many could argue about the functionality and accuracy increases! I shoot this from a bipod, and it is extremely accurate. Mine is in .22-250, but you should also expect excellent accuracy from your Model 10 in .223.

RM...don't be discouraged by Loner's post. I think it may have come across as a little harsh, but I don't think it was intended that way. Without trying to speak for Loner, I think the point was that trigger replacement and accurizing a rifle without knowing what you're doing is dangerous -- that is very true. It isn't something that is a casual, haphazard, have a beer and pound it in type of thing. That being said, there is no reason that someone who is careful, has a will to learn, and is paying attention to what he/she is doing can't gain the knowledge they need. I say that because I myself was in a situation similar to you a few years ago. I was a long time shooter who really decided to get into working on my own guns, reloading, etc. I tackled my first trigger job years ago with a healthy fear, but mostly after studying original function, having the right tools, and making SURE that the trigger I put in functioned properly before and after the action was screwed back into the stock -- this is imperative before you even think of chambering anything other than a snap cap. Taking your guns apart and understanding how they work is usually a good step towards a more informed shooting experience.



This is a good place to find the information you're looking for; in fact, the internet in general is a good place to glean information. It is also part of the problem, too...sorting out the bad information from the good. I think that these forums in general have a pretty knowledgeable and experienced group of shooters that will offer mostly good advice, so I would recommend it. I probably get most of my gunsmithing information online, and I use my gunsmithing books more as references. "Gunsmithing Rifles" is a title I can think of offhand that is part of my collection. Chances are, if you are like me, about the only thing you will be doing to accurize firearms yourself are trigger replacement, stock replacement/bedding, the occasional filing or removal of metal or stock material, etc. The more difficult machining, etc. will probably be left to a qualified gunsmith. I'm guessing that you are with me here, interested in "gunsmithing lite"...



Finally, if you are going to be doing any of the above, you will definitely need the right tools. A Walmart racheting screwdriver with 100 bits is NOT gonna do it. Here are my recommendations for some of the basics for accomplishing the things that I have referred to above, available from MidwayUSA, Brownells, Natchez, etc.:



gun vise (I have a Tipton)

specific gunsmithing screwdriver set (I have B-Square and Pachmayer, but Brownells has the premium ones)

punch and hammer set (almost a guaranteed need for trigger replacement)



Also, some kind of file will be necessary at some point -- either to remove stock material because of a wider trigger, because the new sear touches the bottom of the stock, because the bolt release is now high and won't release the bolt any more...you get the picture. I have used a Dremel with good results, but you have to be careful. Most of the guys that write in the gunsmithing forum seem to think they can be more trouble than they are worth, since you can quickly go wrong with them.



There are a ton of other things on my bench, and probably some essentials I forgot, but this post is long enough already. Hope it helps a little...

Thanks for the info Bug. I think I have the desire to become learn what you describe as the "gunsmithing lite". Having a decent mechanical ability and as you described "healty fear" I feel that I have the ability to achieve this. What I lack is the knowledge and what I had hoped to obtain was some good direction. Having so little knowledge I’m not going to take one person’s advice and jump into it rather I was going to use it as a starting point. Loner was probably right saying that I should check out some good sources for this stuff and have a much better idea of what is involved and how everything works. Having said that, are there any good references both books or websites that anybody can think of off hand that would set me in the right direction? Thanks again

rmfrankart,

How are you cleaning your rifle? If you're not used to the centerfire accuracy game you may not realize how important cleaning can be. There a lots of methods for cleaning, but you'll for sure need:

Bore guide
Quality one piece rod
Good cleaning juice(s), pastes, foams, etc. (that's where it gets fun....)
proper jags
proper patches

As far as resources, see if you can find someone selling a few years worth of Varmint Hunter magazine. It's a quarterly publication.

As mentioned above, try some Black Hills ammo in your savage. My 10fp really likes it. I have a trigger job and that's it. I'm still using the crappy stock but would like a Sharp Shooter Supply stock one of these days.

R

I think I understand the importance of cleaning. I don't exactly understand why cleaning centerfire and rimfire differ but mine has never gone more than 20 rounds before cleaning. Initially, it never went more tahn 3 rounds before cleaning for about the first 30. I have picked up on the importance of the bore guide and never clean without one. I use one of the cheap 3 piece cleaning rods from a hoppe's cleaning kit...maybe i'll decide to spend the money on a nice one-piece. Any recommendations? I’m trying to find some blackhills ammunition around here. Hopefully that will work good for me. Sounds like the trigger job is the way to go. I’m going to start looking into this much more extensively. Thanks for the input

RM & others,

Like I said, I was not trying to be mean or harsh, and I think the last round of posts here bore me out as to what I said previously. You clarified where you are coming from, and there was some excellent input from others in these forums. That is what I was trying to stimulate. Guns are addictive, and I'm hooked also.

Another great resource I've found are the catalogs. Midway, Cabella's, and Sinclair, all make excellent reading in and of themselves, because they are educating while presenting quite a variety of products. Brownell's and Numrich are also a "must have" catalogs.

Also, "The Accurate Rifle" by Warren Page, although a little old, gets into the "nitty gritty" on matters of accuracy, triggers, stocks, etc. This was published around 1970, but I think that 99% of what he covers in this book is relevant today. About the only real changes since then are the absolutely small groups that are shot in modern benchrest competition! I think his discussions on stocks and bedding are worth the price of the book alone. I think it is still available from Sinclair. Happy shooting!

Loner