.224 CF 8" For bullets heavier than 70 gr.

9" For bullets up to 70 gr.

12" For bullets up to 63 gr.

14" For bullets up to 55 gr.

15"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,100 fps or more

16"* For bullets up to 55 gr. driven 4,300 fps or more

With all the choices, why not pick the 1x8" and shoot the 70gr+ on down to the 40grain. Can you over-stabilizea a bullet? Why do most manufactures use the 1x14" barrel?

quote:

Why do most manufactures use the 1x14" barrel?

Since most all .224 caliber rifles are made for varmint shooting using bullets of no more than 55gr. A 14" twist ist the best suited twist for this type of shooting and the most accurate.

Target shooters will use long and much heavier bullet which require a faster twist. I used a 14' twist in a 22-250 and never had any complaints about it.

I didn't explain myself very well. I do have 2 22-250's one is AI both are 1x14" I've run several thousand rounds of 55grain bullets thru both of them. I load everything from from 45grain to 55grain in most bullets. What I want to know, is why don't the manufactures use the 1x8 twist as the normal barrel. Can you over spin a bullet, i.e. to much stabilization?

velocity has a factor in it as well.

It wouldn't take a 1:7 twist to stabilize a 77 grain .224 bullet from a .220 Swift but it does for a 14.5" barreled M4 Carbine

The 1/8 twist barrel came out long after say the 1/14 or 1/12 in 22 cal. I think Rem makes one 223 in a 1/9 twist those are mainly tactial type rifles maybe other manufactors that have that type offering also.

I think the over stabilization question will start an argument for sure. sSome say it doesn't affect accuracy and some say it does.

Accuracy aside, I do know from experience that over-rotating some of the explosive varmint bullets will disintegrate them in mid-air.

I have a bolt 223 with a one in 8 twist... and a 24 inch barrel... It shoots any bullet accurately from 40 grains to 80 grains...
the only down side with that fast of a twist to shooting fragile varmint bullets at high velocity...

the fast twist will vaporize them as they leave the barrel! literally!

stray away from overly fragile bullets and the one in 8 will allow you to shoot any bullet weight you want... that is why I built one with that twist...
I have others with the regular twist rates... however when they get rebarreled, it will be with a one in 8 or one in 7.....

They evidently go as low as one in 5 or 6 twist for some 90 grain 22 caliber bullets that I have never ever seen but know they exist!

cheers
seafire

Even the standard 1-14 .22s will vaporize light varmint bullets when driven at maximum velocities. Both the 22-250 and 220 Swift come to mind, and both times I was using Hornady's 50 grain SX bullet. It is easy to spot -just look for the blue cloud o lead and bright flash at 100 to 150 yards. Sometimes the distance is less.

Thanks - seafire/B17G - that's what I wanted to know. Which bullets have you settled on as a standard round, if their is such a round. 55-60gr. or heavier and what brands hold together without having to worry? The next barrel will be 1x8 twist too.

AI:

I have not really settled on anything in particular..

I do use the fast twist rifle with loads of 46 grain HPs, 40 grain BT and BKings, all of the standard bullets... I even use the fragile ones, I just cut velocity down to 3000 to 3200 fps or so...

If I had to make a recommendation to another shooter tho, I'd point out any of the ballistic tips or blitzkings are good choices....As well as the VMax bullets...

I shoot a lot of 55 and 60 grain V Maxes in this rifle along with 69 grain Sierra Matchkings, 75 grain A Maxes and HPs from Hornady, and finally the 80 grain Nosler and Sierra HP Match bullets.... the 52/53 grain Match bullets from several manufacturers also hold up well....

Just be careful not to exceed the bullets velocity limitations....

My problem is that I just enjoy shooting a lot of different stuff... This rifle has been pretty accurate with about anything I feed it...

Good luck with yours...

cheers
seafire

tiggertate, You oughta see what a "6 twist" barrel will do to .172" projectiles from a 17 Remington!! I have no idea who ordered that barrel but it was in my buddies shop so we chucked it up and chambered it!! What a waste of gunsmithing time!!! But did provide a laugh or two!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
tiggertate, You oughta see what a "6 twist" barrel will do to .172" projectiles from a 17 Remington!! I have no idea who ordered that barrel but it was in my buddies shop so we chucked it up and chambered it!! What a waste of gunsmithing time!!! But did provide a laugh or two!! GHD

GHD:

Is that kind like someone's breathe on a cold day? I love vaporizing bullets on a 100 degree day with no humidity and watch them just vaporize out of the barrel, like the rifle is breathing on a cold day.....

A silent "poof"....

cheers
seafire

Well, Sierra now has a 90 grain .224 bullet, I figure someday we'll have a 2:1 twist for foot longs.

Anyway, as indicated above, you really can't overstabilize a bullet, but you can exceed one's structural integrity due to high spin rates. Thin jacketed bullets are more prone to this than more heavily constructed types. Other than that the only penalties I'm aware of with fast twist rates are associated with Yaw of Repose isssues which really don't matter until the target is on the other side of Sam Hell's hill. Two others have to do with derogatory effects of high spin rates on unbalanced bullets as relates to accuracy, and deformation imparted by the greater twist. Each of these is present in all rifles, but is more pronounced as twist rate increases.

Put another way, just because you can doesn't always mean you should.

The recent introduction of the 90 grain Sierra MK is a welcome addition for those seeking heavy .224 cal bullets of 80 grains or more with a high BC.

About 1 month ago, I received some 80 & 85 grain Wildcat ULD .224 cal bullets from Richard Graves, and have just placed an order for his new 100 and 107 grain bullets.

For those who may be interested, the 80 grain measures 1.085 inches, 85 grain measures 1.117 inches, 100 grain measures 1.300 inches, and 107 grain measures 1.355 inches.

It is predicted that a 1 in 6.5 twist will be required to stabilise the 100 and 107 grain bullets, although testing will reveal whether a 1 in 7 twist may suffice in larger cases producing velocities of 3200 fps or more.

Over the years I have fired numerous bullets in various calibres that have come apart in flight. Invariably, these bullets did not have the structural integrity (to borrow Digital Dan's excellent term) to withstand the combination of twist, velocity, and possibly bore condition. This has taught me how critical these factors are in success or otherwise of the bullet in any barrel.

It's a bit strange but for the last 40yrs I've been shooting, reloading, and shooting fairly accurately. Well enough to enough to fill the freezer each year with venison and elk, shoot coyote and rabbits, rats, PD, doves, ducks, geese. I just added the birds for fun.
I've never shot bench rest but most loads managed under an inch in my rifles, after working up good loads and taking care of the brass, watching the reloading technics.
Now it seems that people are making reloading a lot harder than it is. Give me a full load of H4831 with a 130gr Sierra in my .270win or a load a several hundred feet a second off max. with my 22-250 and a 52gr Sierra for accuracy and leave it at that. Granted the next barrel I buy for the 250 will be 1x8" twist but till then I'll go on shooting and having fun.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:

stray away from overly fragile bullets and the one in 8 will allow you to shoot any bullet weight you want...

They evidently go as low as one in 5 or 6 twist for some 90 grain 22 caliber bullets that I have never ever seen but know they exist!

cheers
seafire

Outstanding advice about the 1/8. By far the most versatile rifling rate for .224" CF cartridges.

The tightest twist currently in widespread use is 1/6.5 for shooting the 90 grain Sierra and JLK match bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by brianw:
The recent introduction of the 90 grain Sierra MK is a welcome addition for those seeking heavy .224 cal bullets of 80 grains or more with a high BC.

About 1 month ago, I received some 80 & 85 grain Wildcat ULD .224 cal bullets from Richard Graves, and have just placed an order for his new 100 and 107 grain bullets.

For those who may be interested, the 80 grain measures 1.085 inches, 85 grain measures 1.117 inches, 100 grain measures 1.300 inches, and 107 grain measures 1.355 inches.

Brian, how could American shooters get a hold of these ULD bullets from Mr. Graves?

HP Shooter, Email Richard Graves at wildcatbullets@hotmail.com and he usually replys within 2 days.

There is a website http://www.wildcatbullets.com which someone at the Long Range Hunting website started up for Richard, and has a price list for most of his bullets.

I received my first shipment about 6 weeks ago, when I received some 80 & 85 grain ULD's in 224 and 130 grain BCFBHP, and 142 grain ULD's in 257. Over the last 9 months I have contacted him numerous times, and found him knowledgeable and good to deal with. Brian.

Her is a question in a similar vein, and hopefully not too far off topic-

I like using a 22 hornet for coyotes and racoons that run around the house late at night. I keep the velocity at 2000 fps and get great acc'y with acceptable noise (meaning my wife does not levitate out of bed) however the 14" twist will not stabilize anything over 45 grains which is fine for the coons but it is not 100% reliable on the coyotes. I have been thinking about trying a 10" twist but since I don't have to worry about the hornet disintegrating many bullets maybe an 8" twist would be best of all? I am thinking about a 55-60 grain bullet at 2000 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by AI22-250:
I didn't explain myself very well. I do have 2 22-250's one is AI both are 1x14" I've run several thousand rounds of 55grain bullets thru both of them. I load everything from from 45grain to 55grain in most bullets. What I want to know, is why don't the manufactures use the 1x8 twist as the normal barrel. Can you over spin a bullet, i.e. to much stabilization?

Yes, it IS possible to overstabilize a bullet. However, with today's high-quality bullets, it is not as big a problem as it used to be.

I believe the reason most manufacturers in the UI.S. use slower than 1/8" twists is because they are generally bulding rifles they expect to be used to shoot varmints, and you don't need the real quick twists for the lighter weight, varmint-type bullets.

Pure target and sniper rifles are obviously a different, less common application for the average .22 centerfire.

quote:

Originally posted by tom holland:
The 1/8 twist barrel came out long after say the 1/14 or 1/12 in 22 cal. I think Rem makes one 223 in a 1/9 twist those are mainly tactial type rifles maybe other manufactors that have that type offering also.

The M16A2 was the first mass produced rifle to come out with a barrel twist faster than 1/12. They come with a 1/7 to stabilize the very long M856 tracer ammo.

In the civilian world, the appearance of the 77 and 80 grain Sierra Match Kings, and the 75 grain Hornady Match HPBT and AMAX bullets led to the domination of the AR15 as the service rifle of choice for NRA Highpower and CMP Excellence In Competition Matches.

Those heavy bullets led to the proliferation of 1/8, 1/7.7, and 1/7 match grade barrels for AR15s. The recent appearance of 90 grain match bullets have give popularity to barrels with a 1/6.5 twist.

Now most barrel makers will make you a bolt action barrel in the same twist for heavy 223s. The beauty of them is that they work wonderfully with lighter bullets down to the 50 grain mark.