4759 put me on to http://personal.stevens.edu/~g...no/ammo/history.html
Carcano ammo page this great reading.roger


For you all conspiracy theorists US made military ammunition was used to kill JFK. Here is the headstamp.

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/...115072/352555322.jpg
Registered: 03 December 2008


bartsche Posted 05 May 2009 07:35
I am totally surprised and impressed. What a great expose of the 6.5 Carcano. Thank you a lot.

If you care to see an unusual sporterized Carcano carbine that I did send me your E-Mail address. Thanks again roger

Was the picture taken before the shot was fired?

For that round I guess so.

SR4759

Rumour is.... Oswald never fired a shot.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
SR4759

Rumour is.... Oswald never fired a shot.

Strange rumor when compared to the facts.

The best work on Carcano ammunition I have ever seen ( ..maybe because some samples come from my collection? )

http://www.worldwar.it/sito/in...icle&id=73&Itemid=84

http://www.worldwar.it/sito/in...icle&id=95&Itemid=96

Lads,

According to the Warren Commission who investigated the Kennedy assasination, the Carcano was "... the most accurate, rapid firing, bolt action military rifle ever made."
Maybe I should get one.

Mike

i always follow the commisions recommendations too.
not.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael A. Glass:
Lads,

According to the Warren Commission who investigated the Kennedy assasination, the Carcano was "... the most accurate, rapid firing, bolt action military rifle ever made."
Maybe I should get one.

Mike

No wonder people have doubts about their conclusions. LOL
Grizz

quote:

... the Carcano was "... the most accurate, rapid firing, bolt action military rifle ever made ...

OK seriously, how bad or good was the Carcano?

(It is alledged that Oswald was a bad shot - I would concur! He missed his target twice! And he was real close - 80 yards they say! How long did it take to fire those three shots? I have hit my moving target three times with three shots in far less time then Oswald alledgedly did. And my target was running! Plus I hit point of aim. Oswald didn't).

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

... the Carcano was "... the most accurate, rapid firing, bolt action military rifle ever made ...

OK seriously, how bad or good was the Carcano?

(It is alledged that Oswald was a bad shot - I would concur! He missed his target twice! And he was real close - 80 yards they say! How long did it take to fire those three shots? I have hit my moving target three times with three shots in far less time then Oswald alledgedly did. And my target was running! Plus I hit point of aim. Oswald didn't).

Boy don't get this started---Oh, it is already--

My first rifle I bought was a 7.35 at age 14, have owned several 6.5's, and
have taken many animals with both calibres.

Not inaccurate fire arms even by modern standards.

Difficult to rapidly function, yes, inaccurate, no.

I have been "in place" at THE window ( years ago,before the museum stopped that privilege).

Sight Picture:
Moving vehicle, moving man in vehicle , down angle, curving vehicle path, the (shortly there after)now missing tree, three shots out of the Carcano with the side mount scope, etc---

easy with the Carcano, you might need to think again.

(will not open the time debate on the shots here, though I agree time is a HUGE issue as well)
(I'm aware of the re-enactments, including the recent British one on the Trinity levees.)

My shooting of these rifles leads me to think this was not an easily accomplished task, perhaps not impossible, just not predictable, due to the bolt, trigger arrangement etc,
but not due to accuracy issues with the weapons I have fired.

I know----here it comes

Thanks for that, DuggaBoye. That is an interesting insite. My quick three shots were with and Aschutz hornet - a beautifilly smooth and slick rifle with a great trigger and a well fitting stock plus a good scope. I would not have been able to pull off that trick with my Lee Enfield and that is a quick rifle to operate. So the carcano is an accurate rifle... Mmmmm! (And apparently, Oswald was not too bad a shot after all. Unfortunately! )

quote:

Originally posted by Michael A. Glass:
Lads,

According to the Warren Commission who investigated the Kennedy assasination, the Carcano was "... the most accurate, rapid firing, bolt action military rifle ever made."
Maybe I should get one.

Mike

Funny, many times in competition the fastest has been the Lee Enfield.

quote:

many times in competition the fastest has been the Lee Enfield.

I'm not surprized. I have recently handled a CZ made M98 military mauser (1950) which was very well made. Well machined, smooth interior - what I would emagine a custom builder would like to get hold of. This one must have come out of the grease - it is that 'new'. Still not a touch on a roughly made Lee Enfield! Now I would like to handle a carcano. (I've never set eyes on one!) The Mosan Nagant is an interesting piece too. I got the bolt apart on one - quite a job figuring out how it went back together.

Funny, many times in competition the fastest has been the Lee Enfield. [/QUOTE]

Well maybe but my bet goes with the Krag.

As far as the accuracy of the 6.5 Carcano, it always perofrmed well on mule deer with open sites out to a known 100 + yards. That was with .264 dia, bullets. roger

I have a badly bubbafied 6.5 Carbine. The bolt is one of the slickest I have ever operated. Combined with the packet clip, straight line feed from the magazine makes it one of the most positive feeders I have ever used.

quote:

Well maybe but my bet goes with the Krag.

I have never set eyes on a Krag either! What am I missing out on?!!!

quote:

... 6.5 Carbine. The bolt is one of the slickest I have ever operated.

Conflicting reports, here. Why is that? Were some good and some bad?

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

Well maybe but my bet goes with the Krag.

I have never set eyes on a Krag either! What am I missing out on?!!!

quote:

... 6.5 Carbine. The bolt is one of the slickest I have ever operated.

Conflicting reports, here. Why is that? Were some good and some bad?

Some of the carbines have not been used much and they have a lot of tool marks on the bottom of the ejector slot. The ejector is pushed up against the bolt by the sear spring. The heavy tool marks and the spring pressure combine to make the action slip stick and rough on a lot of the rifles. Reducing the sear spring pressure and smoothing the tool marks would make it smoother though much reduction of the sear spring pressure might be a safety issue.

My 6.5 Italian Carcano is really slick with the original bolt and not so smooth with another bolt.
I have 2 Japanese Type I actions that are pretty sticky since they also have follower spring pressure against the bottom of the bolt.

Well for us peons, is it Car-K-ano or Car-s-ano?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Well for us peons, is it Car-K-ano or Car-s-ano?
Peter.

Car-K-ano

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Funny, many times in competition the fastest has been the Lee Enfield.

Well maybe but my bet goes with the Krag.[QUOTE]

As far as the accuracy of the 6.5 Carcano, it always performed well on mule deer with open sites out to a known 100 + yards. That was with .264 dia, bullets. roger

As I stated , never a problem with accuracy.

As to the "speed" thing, when britain was evaluating rifles in the late 40's early 50's they had someof their crack marksmen shoot for time and accuracy against the eventual winner the FAL and other self loaders.
Restricting to the mag capacity of the Lee as to ammo amount, the fond the lee surprisingly fast and accurate.

The Krag was not in the competition.
I do love Krags, always have, they are fast.

As to the Mannlicher type bolts, my favorite in my collecting have been the Mannlicher-Schoenauers, they are smoooooth.

But not as fast as the Lee or the Krag in my hands or others I know and have shot with/against.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Well for us peons, is it Car-K-ano or Car-s-ano?
Peter.

Well,as close as I can make it, it is " Car-con-o" That's without the Ity accent.If it had two contiguous Zs or Cs in it we'd be in trouble I'm sure. roger

quote:

including the recent British one on the Trinity levees

Thanks Dugga. Now that I know how to pronounce it, what is the scoop on the item quoted above? I am not familiar with it.
Peter.

Yeah, hard to beat the smoothness of a Krag. I have a Greek military Mannlicher and it's not so smooth. As to SR's post on two Japs that sticky I have a Type 38 thats very smooth indeed.

They (scientist) just did a very recent test and report on the shooting of JFK and it's pretty damn conclusive that Oswald (or someone from that sixth floor window) shot Kennedy with a 6.5 Carcano. I was one of the stoutest disbelievers, but I'm convinced now. They put a sniper in ALL the supposed spots that many people think the shots came from and he would say of one, nope no shot, would have to be through the windshield, next spot...nope no shot, I can only see his hair over the windshield, the last spot...yup good head shot except I'll kill Jackie too because it's from John's right side and the bullet would go through him into her. He was shot from behind.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

including the recent British one on the Trinity levees

Thanks Dugga. Now that I know how to pronounce it, what is the scoop on the item quoted above? I am not familiar with it.
Peter.

Peter,
I do not recall the shows name, nor do I recall the name of the British rifle expert/sniper that fired the shots.

The city denied their request to shoot from the window, but allowed them to shoot inside the Trinity levee flood plain in a 'closely reconstructed geographical match' location.

It has been maybe 5 or more years, I had forgotten about it until recently I was reminded.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Well for us peons, is it Car-K-ano or Car-s-ano?
Peter.

Well,as close as I can make it, it is " Car-con-o" That's without the Ity accent.If it had two contiguous Zs or Cs in it we'd be in trouble I'm sure. roger

Much like the correct pronunciation of Pecan---It ain't PEEEcan

The correct way to pronounce Carcano is

CAR KA NO

"car" as in "carbine"
"ca" as in "caliper"
"no" ar in "no way"

quote:

Originally posted by Pivi:
The correct way to pronounce Carcano is

CAR KA NO

"car" as in "carbine"
"ca" as in "caliper"
"no" ar in "no way"

Thats a nice a Bona facio! roger

The British television show,was headed by Mike Yardley- a very well known gun writer,and tester,also heads 'The sportsmans Association'-a shooters rights group.

Well I remember when Kennedy was shot. I have seen lots of documentaries and read lots of articles about it.

I know that Carcanos are odd to me. I also remember that during some of the earliest reports showing that a left handed individual (Oswald was a lefty) could actually manipulate and shoot a right handed Carcano faster than a right hander. To be clear, Oswald was a lefty who shot lefty.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Well for us peons, is it Car-K-ano or Car-s-ano?
Peter.

Well,as close as I can make it, it is " Car-con-o" That's without the Ity accent.If it had two contiguous Zs or Cs in it we'd be in trouble I'm sure. roger

Much like the correct pronunciation of Pecan---It ain't PEEEcan

My old boss used to say:" A PeeCan is something my grandma used to keep under the bed at night"

The problems of reconcilling the effectiveness of a Car-K-ano isn't in either the rifle nor cartridge, as such. It did use corrosive ammo and that did have it's effects.

Harvey's rifle had a somewhat rusted bore. Then the "best and brightest" of our G-Men took it to some range and fired a few dozen (or a few hundreds, that's never been clear) of rounds through it before it occured to them to collect a bullet sample.

By the time they did that, bore wear had changed enough that a positive indentification was virtually impossible. It understandably added fuel to theories of Gov. involvment, at least to the point of a cover-up.

The Warren Commission was either totally stupid (possible, and their appraisal of the Carcano supports the idea) or determined to conceal more than they revealed. I've never thought they were gun smart but they sure were politically smart and kept eyes wide shut to some loose ends their report never mentioned. I wonder why they did it that way? Anyway, the Report was so riddled with holes the guessing will never end.

I think either the 6.5 Sweede or Carcano would be a better small arms mil ctg today, than the either the former 308 or current 223.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I think either the 6.5 Sweede or Carcano would be a better small arms mil ctg today, than the either the former 308 or current 223.

Yes indeed; the worst mistake that the italian army made, was to choose a VERY heavy bullet of 10.5g/162gr. With a 130/140gr bullet, it could have been a much better cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
I think either the 6.5 Sweede or Carcano would be a better small arms mil ctg today, than the either the former 308 or current 223.

Let's hear a big ""AMEN!!!"" roger