I am in the market for a custom rifle in 257 Roberts and most likely 257 AI. As this will be my first attempt at a custom job I am looking for advice.

The action. I want this rifle to be on a short action. I have been told that I should seek out a Rem 700 SA or Win M70 SA. I have also been told that the Montana SA is 3.125" and will work well with the heavier bullets in a the 257. So, first question, What action and where can I purchase one.

The barrel. I know very little about custom barrels, quality, price etc. OK, I know nothing about barrels. As I want this rifle to be fairly compact and light I don't want a heavy barrel and I don't want it too long. So, what barrel maker do you recommend? What barrel length to get the most out of a 257 AI without being too long. What contour without being to heavy or to flimsy? And last what twist rate, I plan on using heavier bullets 110-120gr.

Thanks

In all my life I have only commissioned 2 rifles to be built (over the years I built my own) the first being a 7x57 on a 1909 and the last being a 257Roberts on a Win Mdl70 Classic. The 257 has a Lilja 3 groove 22" barrel of fairly stiff contour (have no idea what number)stock is a very dark piece of walnut and is fully glassed. Accuracy is impeccable with groups less than 3/8" from the breakin. This is with 120gr Nosler Partitions. To say I am pleased would be an understatement. This is NOT a light weight rifle mostly due to the scope which is a Zeiss Diavari Z 3-12x56 MC. Just like the scope. Honestly have no idea what the twist is as I did not specify twist just that I would be shooting 120gr bullets. I would suppose it is the standard twist or whatever Lilja reccommended.

Why do you want a short action? I have a Rem. 700 in 257 Rob that is a stock factory rifle with a short action. IMO the magazine is way to short for this cartridge. Even with 100 gr. bullets they have to be seated to deep. My max oal is 2.80" and I usually use 2.785" to make loading and feeding a little better. The bullets are well off the lands. I can't even get close because of the short mag. length.

Having said the above I still like the rifle. With its synthetic stock it is fairly light and easy to carry, accurate enough, mild recoil and still capable of being a good deer rifle for me and my son. I would like to try Noslers 110 gr. Accubond bullet but with that length of a bullet I just don't think it would be worth it. Now if you just wanted to shoot shorter lighter bullets the short action might work out for you if you have the barrel throated properly for them.

Greg

Zim, that 257 is beautiful! Details please! Who did the work? is that a Rem action?
grk40, what bullets do you shoot in your 257R?
Peter.

Hi, Steve4102.

Several years ago I embarked on virtually the same project, same caliber. Here is what I learned:
-A good custom rifle is a great deal more than the sum of the parts. Achieving balance, grace and pleasing lines is what makes the difference between a truly competent gunsmith and the rest of us.
-A beautiful stock is the result of many dozens of hours of design and drawing, multiple sections and views. You don't just start hacking away at several hundreds of dollars worth of walnut, and that is for a decent piece, not exhibition grade by a long shot.
-Selecting a barrel contour off by one, eg a #4 where a #3 would have been better, is just one way to get an unsatisfactory result.
-I THINK that such an undertaking deserves a fine action, maybe the new FNH M70, an older Sako, appropriate Mauser, Granite Mountain Arms, etc.

-If I were to do it again, I would work with my gunsmith, with him as the project manager, and me doing the things that I can, him doing the rest, so that big mistakes are avoided. My gunsmith is Ed Lapour, a member of the American Gunsmith Guild. This is a juried guild. Only the best are accepted. Very few American gunsmiths would qualify.

The process can be very satisfying. I learned how to rust blue, and turned out a first class job, as good as any I've seen. (I did a few other guns before bluing my new baby.) I learned how to shape and finish the wood. The finishing alone is complex. Getting the right level of gloss is a real challenge.

-Seeing a lot of custom rifles is a good step. If you go to the SCI convention, also see the Guild show, usually in the basement of the Silver Legacy. Develop an eye. Talk with the best of the best. Join the Guild as an associate. It will put you in touch with the trade.

Feel free to pm me.

short action X2 roger

I'd sure use a M24/47 Mauser action for the .257 Roberts as it allows you to seat long bullets for serious deer hunting as well as the 75 grainers for varminting.

Short actions just are not the thing for the "Bob"

I'm glad you asked this one, steve4102. I am on the same mission but on a budget! My plan is to use a No.4 MkI LE. (I have a nice one and I like the action). I started leaning toward the 6.5 Swede because of the case dimensions and the fact that, like the 257, factory ammo is loaded to Lee Enfield pressure. (I would be keeping to the 45,000 CUP limit). But I really want the 257, so I will have to modify the extractor and ejector a bit. (The mag has to be modified anyway - no problem since the original is crap).

Keep us informed on your progress.

Peter,
The action is a completely blueprinted Model 70 classic with new bolt handle and Williams bottom metal. Stock is a piece of walnut out of California, tip is a nice piece of ebony,recoil pad (not really needed on a 257) is a Silvers with widows peak on top,grip cap is a Fisher checkering is by Tim Lyons-Smith. Sights (I think a rifle is incomplete without Irons) are NECG pedestal rear and banded front with flip up night sight. Swivel bases are 2 screw Dakotas. Trigger is original with reground contact points. Barrel is a 3 groove Lilja and scope is Zeiss Diavari in Leupold mounts. Stock was turned by Curt Crum to his pattern which I prefer to all others. All metal work and stock work done by Brian Murray. It is fully glassed. Accuracy is consistently under 3/8" with 120gr Nosler Partitions. Gun weighs 8 3/4# lbs with scope.

quote:

short action X2 roger

X3. There is no way I would go to the expense of building a 257R and handicap it with a short action and a deep seated bullet. If you are thinking about going with an AI get a long action seat the bullet out and take advantage of the extra capacity you went to the expense of adding.

Some years ago I built a 257 Robts on a BSA Hunter medium action which was originally in 7x57. I had it throated so I could load 120 grn projectiles out to the full length of the mag, 3", which puts them about flush with the base of the neck. They easily get 2900 fps with several slower powders & no pressure signs. I would certainly advise not handicapping yourself with a short action. 3" is good in a Robts.
Steve

Zim, if I could be so crass, what would a project like that run? Any reason why you went that route rather than just buying a new or used one from, or made by, one of the better know gunsmiths eg. Weibe, etc.?
Peter.

Peter,
I would rather not say what the cost was except it was over $1000. I have been a gunsmith for over 50 years and have built many rifles but I am not anywhere close to the level of the top builders. I am 74 years old and decided a few years back at a school reunion in Trinidad to treat myself to a couple of bespoke guns so to speak before I die. I had a good friend Clayton Nelson (a classmate at TSJC) build me the 7x57 on a Mauser 1909 and I had Brian (who is a friend of over 25 years) build me the 257. The Mauser and the Model 70 are my favorite actions and the 7x57 and the 257 are my favorite light calibers. While there may be better known gunsmiths around,and I know several, I do not believe there are any BETTER than these two men. Just as I am not a trophy hunter neither do I buy a gun on name. As I said both these gunsmiths are close personal friends of many years and the rifles have much more meaning having been bult by them. They are probably the only guns I will ever have built and as such have a value beyond all reason.

Ok, many of you think a short action is a bad idea. Then how about the Montana Short action that is 3.125"? Not long enough or will it be OK?

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:
Ok, many of you think a short action is a bad idea. Then how about the Montana Short action that is 3.125"? Not long enough or will it be OK?

I very recently had a 257R built on this action for the reasons given. Its long enough so far as I know, but I haven't had much opportunity to play with it yet.

I used a 23" very light contour Lothar Walther barrel, I'm thinking I wished I gone one profile heavier. Don't recall off hand the profile number. I opted for a faster twist than the faster of the two common 25 cal twists, which iirc are 1-14" and 1-12" or 1-10". I think I went with 1-9" in the hope that there will be heavier bullets on the market at some point.

The Montana action is no light weight, and that is the root of my concern about the barrel weight. The stock has been hollowed out and now the magazine is scheduled to be drilled to make it lighter, mostly to move the center of gravity forward. If that doesn't work I may swap barrels for a heavier contour.

Hope this helps.

JPK

My most recent custom rifle is a 257 Roberts on a Remington Model 700 Short Action.
There is no problem using a short action for a 257 Bob.
As for barrels, when I have a stainless steel barreled rifle built, I use Hart barrels exclusively. For most rifles that will be blued, I use Douglas. However, I have two rifles being built now that will have Shilen barrels, blued, as that is what the gunsmith recommended. So, I deferred to his judgement.
I normally use the Douglas barrels for blued rifles as they have worked well for me since buying the first one in 1960. All have shot very accurately. The gunsmithing is as important as the barrel itself, getting a good chamber, leade, and fitting.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

grk40, what bullets do you shoot in your 257R?
Peter.

Peter,
The only bullets that I have reloaded for this rifle have been Hornady 100gr. SP. The load I use has a muzzle velocity of 2918 fps. Group size usually falls between 1.25-1.5" at 100 yards. Has worked good on 3 deer so far.

Greg

I have 2 Roberts and 1 AI. I may well build another. I like the Ound, (DUH).
All mine are on long actions But a short action works fine.
I prety much stiick to 100 grain bullets, but
I have played with others.
If You can find a 1910 or 1936 mexican mauser You will have a great rifle action sized perfectly for the Roberts.
As for barrel length I would go with 20 to 24 inch.
If you go AI, I would go with a 24.
As for countour I like what I call a light sporter , it tapers fast and is about .600 to .610 at the muzzle.
As for brand, I like douglas myself. There are others who like more expensive brands, but unless you are a exceptional shooter a douglas will likly shoot better than you.
Its a great round a standard 1 in 10 twist works for me.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:
Ok, many of you think a short action is a bad idea. Then how about the Montana Short action that is 3.125"? Not long enough or will it be OK?

Steve,

The MRC short action will be fine. I built a .257 on it last year, Lila #2 contour 23" barrel with a McMillan Edge Stock (M70 fwt profile). I've run 100 TSX, 110 Accubonds and 100 NP's out of it with no issues all .020 off the lands which makes them pretty long. The MRC is a pretty heavy action, relative to other short actions, so the #2 contour balances well. With a 2.5-8X36 and Talley LW mounts it comes in at 8 lbs on the so not light but not heavy.

Pugs, how much does your stock weigh? Do you know how much your barrelled action weighs without scope & mounts? I have the sane thing with a 24" bbl, Rem 700la, Zeiss 3x9, leupold mounts & brown precision pounder & it weighs 8# with scope & mount.

You are tempting me to build another Roberts.

quote:

The MRC short action will be fine.

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by tom ga hunter:
Pugs, how much does your stock weigh? Do you know how much your barrelled action weighs without scope & mounts?

Roberts.

I don't know how much the barreled action weighed but the stock was 1 1/2 lbs IIRC. All up with the scope it's 8 lbs on the nose.

If your going to build a .257 Robts. then be sure and use a 06 box so that you can seat your bullets out and take advantage of the nice 120 gr. bullets, have the throat cut for the 120 gr. bullets set out as far as you can or to be seated at .257 depth...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If you're going to build a .257 Robts. then be sure and use an 06 box so that you can seat your bullets out and take advantage of the nice 120 gr. bullets, have the throat cut for the 120 gr. bullets set out as far as you can or to be seated at .257 depth...

Should a 1:9 twist rate be used for the heavier bullets?

Zim: I am at a loss for words after seeing your M70 custom. Wow, what a lovely rifle! I'll bet if old Ned Roberts were with us online, he would say he was "greatly pleased" with it.

I have been shooting my 257 Roberts Ackley Improved with OAL of 2.998" with 100 gr Hornady soft point bullet into the lands.

I used the standard 257RAI reamer, Lothar Walther barrel 1 in 10" twist, and VZ24 action.

That rifle can shoot better than I can.

quote:

Why do you want a short action? I have a Rem. 700 in 257 Rob that is a stock factory rifle with a short action. IMO the magazine is way to short for this cartridge.

I concur. IF you want a short action .25, build a .250 Savage AI on a short action. According to Ackley himself, the .250 AI is the best of all the improved designs he created.........

IF you can, get a Cascade Arms rifle.
http://www.cascadearms.com
These are the neatest custom bolt rifles I have yet seen and handled anywhere in the world, each action dimensionally tailored to the exact cartridge! Wisht I could afford one!!

Well, my .257 is a Remington M7MS.



Unfortunately it's a short action and only drives a 120gr. bullet at 2750fps.

And it groups like this on a typical day...



But then, it's a short action. I should just pay someone to take it off my hands, right?

I'll do you a favor and take it off your hands if you pay the shipping. With that kind of accuracy you will never hit anything. I might be able to tweak it and get a good group. I do like those in the brown laminate they are really a neat little rifle and handy to carry.

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Well, my .257 is a Remington M7MS.



Unfortunately it's a short action and only drives a 120gr. bullet at 2750fps.

And it groups like this on a typical day...



But then, it's a short action. I should just pay someone to take it off my hands, right?

Rnovi:

Remington is never my first choice in a rifle action.. however, I have to admit.. that one is impressive.. I was contemplating a sister to that in 260 Remington when they were making them..

would have loved a Model 70 in that set up, and they were making those also in 260.. but the custom shop price was like $3,000.00 too spendy for Seafire's Blood...

if you ever need someone to admire it and lust over it, feel free to post the pics or send them to me in a PM....

beautiful rig!!

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:Rnovi:

Remington is never my first choice in a rifle action.. however, I have to admit.. that one is impressive.. I was contemplating a sister to that in 260 Remington when they were making them..

would have loved a Model 70 in that set up, and they were making those also in 260.. but the custom shop price was like $3,000.00 too spendy for Seafire's Blood...

if you ever need someone to admire it and lust over it, feel free to post the pics or send them to me in a PM....

beautiful rig!!

SF,

Thank you for the kind words! It's funny - I've never had anything but good luck and results with Remington. On the other hand, a buddy of mine went through hell and back with a 700 in .35 Whelen. Who knows?

You are right on about it being from the Custom Shop. And being that I'm an official cheap bastige, there's no way I was going to pay retail ($2600 + !!!) for it! On the other hand, when someone's been sitting on one forever...in a caliber that's not all that popular (.257 bob)...in an action that's obviously too short...

Let's just say that the discounts were very, very steep.

Anyway, back to the thread on hand. I've been toying with having a custom 7x57 built on a medium action. I predict that this will likely be the "second to the last" rifle I will ever own. (Honestly, I'm more of a pistol guy.)

So I find this thread very interesting. The idea of a Montana Short Action sounds just about right to me...22" bbl perhaps. Probably throated for a 160gr bullet.

Anyway, I don't mean to take away from the thread - my appologies to the orginal poster.

RN:

I remember the Remington rifles like yours were in the $1200 to $1300.00 range, about half of what Winchester was going for..

As far as 7 x 57s, another good caliber.. I have several, 2 Rugers and a Model 70 Featherweight...I think you'll like it.. a Twin of your Mannlicher would be nice... or a Remington Mountain Rifle was offered in both the Roberts and the 7 x 57 when they first came out with the Mtn Rifle..

It is not that I dislike Remingtons.. I just prefer Winchesters over them followed up by Rugers and Remingtons about the same...Rugers are just peddled more locally...

Above are some very fine 257 Roberts. I have two 257R. One is a custom H&R Ultra the other
a Ruger #1 in mint condition. Both are absolute
tack drivers.

The Ruger uses the 110gr Accobond
and the H&R 100gr Speer Hot core both are most
effective on deer. The 257R H&R has taken a moose with the 100gr Hotcore.

I am fond of single shot rifles and have quite a few more. They are all great shooters. I believe the 25cal is about as good a deer rifle you can get. I use three 25cal rifles for deer namely the 700SA 25 Hunter, the #1 257 Roberts and the #1 25-06. The 25 Hunter is a sort of 250Sav imp. An HBR cartridge.

To give this dead horse a couple more licks, I have read from a couple of reliable sources that you shouldn't restrict a .257Roberts to a short action.
And it is one of the cartridges that truely gains from the AI treatment.

AR posters are never short on opinions; they're only lacking in facts .

The action length you use should depend on your goals. It seems that you want a lightweight "mountain" type rifle. Therefore, using a "full length" (3.35" magazine) action is detrimental to your goal. Also, if you were using an '06-length action, you might as well chamber for .25-06! Makes no sense to chamber for .257 or AI, then leave 3/8 inch of magazine unused.

"Short" actions: The Remington 700 and Sako L579 have boxes that limit you to about 2.8" or slightly less. This works for the 57mm case, but it does require deeper-than-optimum seating if you are using heavier or longer bullets. If weight and overall length are extremely important to you, then use a "short" action and sacrifice some versatility. The AI case will make up for what you lose to deep bullet seating and you will end up with approximately .257 Roberts performance (which isn't that bad if loaded to 60,000 psi like other cartridges on this case.)

"Longer" short actions: The Win 70 "short", the Montana, and the Kimber 8400 (or any action designed to have enough length for the WSM series) will have a magazine of 3" or better. This is "just right" for the 57mm case. Most of these actions will be pricey, but then building a custom rifle is a pricey proposition so an extra $200 in action costs shouldn't be a big deterrent. The Kimber is probably the lightest of the lot and is an excellent action. Finding a donor rifle for this action will be a bit costly, however. Another option might be the Savage medium-length action. I know it is not the most prestigeous, but it can be customized to make an outstanding rifle. Another plus for it is the accutrigger, and it can be had for much less money than other actions. Some of the military "short" Mauser actions can be reworked into outstanding custom rifles, but such actions are increasingly difficult to find and are very expensive to rework.

Barrels: I had a .257 many years ago on a "medium" commercial Mauser with about a 3" magazine. Its 23" barrel seemed perfect for the rifle -- not too short, nor cumbersomely long, and it yielded 2950 fps with Sierra 117 gr boattails using surplus 4831 powder. A muzzle diameter of around .575" with the appropriate contour will be light, but plenty stiff to give you 3-5 accurate shots. After all, how many shots do you need placed inside a .75 moa group when shooting at game animals? If it starts to drift after heating up, the animal, which was "dead on its feet" after the first shot and went down for good when you followed up with the second, won't care whether shots 6 through 10 from a hot barrel wander an inch and a half out of the group.

Good luck with your project. And good luck keeping your bank account in the black as it goes forward!

Having owned a number of .257 Roberts rifles I would never build one again in a short action..You need the long 06 length box so that you can seat the bullets out, and you need a long throat to match the box..Then you can use the 117 and 120 gr. bullets, and yes it will still shoot the 75 and 100 gr. bullets, at least ALL of mine did....