AR Forum Colleagues,

I�m hatching my next project and need some advice to help round out my battery. I have a Winchester model 770 rifle in 22/250 Remington that I won in a raffle nearly 25 years ago. The model 770 was only made for a few years in the late 60s and early 70s and it is essentially a plain Jane model 70 action without a floor plate, having a blind magazine. I believe the action is considered to be a standard 308-length push feed action but blocked to the short length with a magazine spacer for the 22/250. It has a 22" barrel and shoots acceptable as a walking varmint rifle with a number of loads under 1�. I never really shot it much as I have other more accurate heavy barrel varmint rifles so it has ended up in the back of the safe most of the time.

I want to rebarrel and restock it to a medium bore on the order of the 257 Roberts size cartridge. I�m narrowing my choices to 6mm to 25 caliber but might consider one of the short magnums if it will work (don�t think the Short Mags will work, too fat, maybe SSM?). I thought about the 257 Roberts/Ackley, 243 Win/Ackley, 6 or 6.5/284 or some other more unconventional wildcats. I want it as a light-hunting rifle for eastern whitetail hunting. I�ll restock it or use the original wood stock as there are no plastic stocks, no muzzle breaks, no monster scopes in this mans collection. I haven�t decided whether to keep the blind magazine or add a floorplate and box, which of course will add to the cost. The cartridge should help to round ourt my battery (have 22 caliber varmints rifles, 22 Hornet, 7mm-08, 270 Win, 280 Ackley, 300 Wea, 375 H&H, 45/70 and others but you can see the wide embarrasing gap)

Anybody got suggestions on what I might consider. It�s hard brain taxing work trying to come up with a plan I know, but I feel it just has to be done!

Thanks in advance
Paul

Why not a .260? If its a blocked .308 length action, a 6.5 swede might barely fit. I think a round based on the .284 case might be kinda snug also. Good luck. These decisions are hard but someone has to make them.

260 is good as is the 250-3000 or 250-3000 AI. The Roberts is OK, but it really belongs in a three inch action (perhaps you could make that happen given your mag). Don't bother with a 6.5-284 if you're going to stick with 2.8" OAL - the factory 6.5-284 Norma (they now peddle two different loads for it) is designed for a long action.

Another great bunch of rounds that makes an ideal medium range deer round are the BR cases. I have a lightweight 21" barrelled 700 SA in 7mm BR - have taken a number of whitetails with it, really works slick. There's also the 6mm BR and 6.5mm BR. They pack a lot of punch for such little cases - and the accuracy will likely be eye-popping. Very efficient out of shorter barrels as well. If you picked one of these rounds, you probably wouldn't have to modify much on the mag.

Anyway...

Paul Reed,

I am in definite agreement with the remarks of 9.3x62 as to the .260,250-3000 or the 250-3000AI. As much as I really like the 26 bore and looking at the other calibers you have---my choice would be the 250 Ackley Improved. You could take a number of your unfired 22-250 brass and neck up to 25 and fireform to obtain your brass. You would have one of the best of the Ackley Improved cartridges and would certainly handle the game that you wish to hunt. My personal choice for a good bullet would be the Sierra 90gr HPBT. This is my bullet of choice for hunting Texas Whitetails with my 257 Roberts AI. Best of luck whatever your choice might be.

Ol' John

Paul:

HondoJohn and 9.3 x 62 are giving good advise.
While I am partial to the 260, and it would be my first choice, the 250 or 250 AI would be a great second choice. Just neck up all that 22/250 brass you have already got.

Depending on the magazine length, I am also partial to the 6 mm Remington. I am a believer in Sectional Density ( over bullet weight) for penetration capabilities. Velocity depends on bullet design.
While I love the old 257 Roberts, a 6mm Remington with a 105 grain Speer, or an 85 grain Barnes XLC, or a 95 grain partition, make one heck of a good round. Let me put on my flack jacket and my helmet real quick: I would even use it for Elk if I had to in a pinch, and feel confident in the round downing the animal if I put the bullet where I am supposed to!!

I was going to rebarrel an '06 to 257 Roberts, but ended up going with the 6mm Remington.
If you do any 6.5 mm I recommend making sure you get a 1 in 8 twist or quicker, as compared to the 1 in 9 some places are putting out.

On the 6mm, get a one in 8 twist with that, and you will be able to shoot the 107 and 115 grain target bullets, if you swing that way. that is what I did and sure am glad I did so.

Good luck !!!

Chalk me up for the 250 AI. All the power you need, great accuracy potential, easy to get the brass. Little or no work to the feed ramp or magazine. JMO, Dutch.

Another vote here for the .257 Roberts(or the A/I). I second the nomination for the B/R family.

packrat

Paul: Your Model 770 has a full-length action because that's the only length Winchester made at that time (the "medium" action came later). With modification (inexpensive) to the bolt stop and magazine box, you can make it anything you want on the standard .473" head size, including .30-06, and even .35 Whelen. You could make a .284 Win or .284-based wildcat just by carefully widening the feed rails a bit. You could even open the bolt face, open the feed rails, and replace the magazine box and chamber belted magnums, WSM's, Dakotas, or what have you. So you are hardly limited in your choices of calibers.

I'm partial to the .257 AI, myself, but there are many, many good choices for the application you have in mind.

[ 07-03-2003, 22:43: Message edited by: Stonecreek ]

260

Too many choices, too few rifles.

6mm BR with a 1-8 twist barrel

What about the wildcat that is a 6mm based on a 22-250 case. 6mmX or something such as that. Just a thought.

Paul -

The 260 will meets all your needs and will absoloutely fit your magazine, bolt face and action. The key with any 6.5 if you want to do varminting is to cut the throat short enough that a 120 gr spitzer will touch the lands seated to 2.8 inch COL. This should allow you to seat the 85, 90, and 95 gr varmint bullets out near the lands while retaining a good pruchase on the base in the neck. Let the 129 and 140 grainers go into the case...you will lose only 3 to 4 grs of capacity and the short throat will give that right back in velocity. Give up on the 160 grainers...you can't have everything, and a 140 partition will do anything a 160 soft point will do with a much better trajectory. Stay with the 1 in 9 twist, and a 24 inch bbl. Expansion ratio is getting up close to the 270 Win and you need the bbl length.

Don't waste the 140s on deer sized game, the fine 100 gr Nosler partition does well over 3300 fps with W760 and H414 at a 98% load density and they penetrate like 129 gr SPs...every bit as effective as a 25-06. Recoil is a dead ringer for a 100 gr 6MM Rem. For tough angles and brush, go with the Nosler 125 partition. Vhit 560 will push this bullet to 3035 fps (close to 270 with 130s in a 22 inch bbl) at 100% load density.

IMR 4064 and Sierra's 85 gr HP will top 3500 fps, again with good load density. For fun varminting, the same bullet driven by 33 grs AA XMP5744does 3220 fps with 7 ft lbs of recoil in an 8 lb rifle and the coolest barrel on the hill. Expect plus or minus 12 fps with this load.

Remington IMHO, has done a poor job marketing this round, which was given notariety back in the 1980s when Jim Carmichael necked the 308 Win down to 6.5MM, threw together a 12 pound bench rifle and shot a 7 inch 1000 yard group at the IBS championship. Selling it as a carbine round for 18 to 20 inch barrels has kept it in the pop gun department, rather than the 25-06 to 270 group for hunting and with ANY short or long range target round made.

I like the .257 Roberts idea. I've seen lots of stuff killed with the .243/.25-06 class rds. The Roberts has a wide selection of bullets and much potential.
I second the idea of opening up the magazine box, and changing the bolt stop. That's exactly what Col. T. Whelen did way back when for his all around rifle for eastern woods hunting.
Either that, or one of the .243 cartriages. I see no point in fooling with some AI case design. Nor do I see any point in the use of the .25-06 or the .25-284 for your uses. The .260 is another good choice. E

The M 70 push feeds are favored by many here for target rifles! Unless your going to replace that stock and bottom metal I don't see any great appeal in a blind magazine rifle with pressed checkering.

Consider making that rifle into a very accurate long range target rifle! There are many "F" Fun matches around now. So chambering it for say a 260 R, 6.5 X 284 or a 308 W with the best long barrel that you can buy will give you an opportunity for something really different.

Much of the time target rifles are loaded single shot and a push feed is easier to use.

Just a different idea. Here one of our "professional" long range guys just used an action like you have to make a rifle in 6mm/250 with a 1-8 Krieger just for 600 yd prone.

Sabot has given very wise counsel. I agree 100%. The 250 A.I. would be my second choice, and a 308 Win. my third choice for what you want to do with it. The 260 is a very fine chambering. Good bullet choice for varminting, excellent bullet choise for medium game, and long range target. Try it you will like it.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight.......RiverRat

AR forum Colleagues,

Apologies for the delayed reply...earning a living keeps getting in the way...

Thanks for everyone's advice and counsel. I'm narrowing my choice to either the 250AI or the 260. Need to read up on the performance of each of these.

Stonecreek-turns out that I was visiting a gunsmith shop in Pittsburg while away and happened to mention the 770 action. The gunsmith there was very familiar with the action and confirmed your advice that Winchester only made one action length during that time period. Thanks for the input....it might make the choice even more complicated now that I've broadened my caliber selections!!!

Appreciate all the advice and will consider it seriously.
Thanks
Paul

My choices in order
1. 260
2. 6mm REM
3. 257 Roberts (not the AI, to much trouble)
There is really no wrong answer here, you know where the hole exists in your collection.

Paul Reed: For your uses fireforming 40 or 60 pieces of brass would not be much trouble as you only need to do that once a decade (or so). So the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved and the 250 Savage Ackley Improved would not be much trouble that a way.
My suggestions for your use would be
#1 - 260 Remington
#2 - 257 Roberts
#3 - 257 Roberts Ackley Improved
#4 - 250 Savage Ackley Improved

Good luck with whichever you choose!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Sabot,

Holy cow! you've about talked me into a 260.......oh yeah, I already have one!!! Well, I have a 260 AI, my gunsmith already had the 260 AI reamer so I thought I would try one. So far, so good.

Have you tried RamShot's Big Game with the 100g Partition? In my AI version I'm getting 3,350 and no pressure signs during load development. Need to shoot this load several times in one case and see if any problem shows up. I bring up Big Game as it burns consistent, is temperature insensitive (according to Barsness), the pressure doesn't get erratic at high pressures, and velocity is very consistent. Also, would be difficult to find a powder that flows better through a powder measure.

I will be trying out those 100g Partitions this fall. Glad to hear you've had good experiences with them. What kind of accuracy have you been getting?

HogWild

These two are my picks as well, especially since they both require very little modification.
Looks to me like the 257 AI will outperform the 260 by a couple hairs, and I do think that would be my pick. Bigger at the base and shoulder, longer body, so especially with light-to medium wieght bullets you should expect at least the same velocities for a given bullet weight, with better sectional density.
The good thing is, even if you pick the wrong one, you still got it right!