...and made me spend more of my hard-earned money tonight for Blue Dot, Blue Dot and MORE Blue Dot -- along with a few bullets, too...

All kidding aside, I really should thank Seafire once more for those wonderful Blue Dot loads for the .223. Today, after more tinkering, I finally settled on a load -- 14 grains behind the Barnes 36 grain Varmint Grenade -- that will be my short-range bobcat taker this winter, and I hope they perform as well as they have been on everything from 'possums to coyotes. None had an exit until tonight when I took a small possum at just over 50 yards. The impact was behind the shoulder and the exit -- no bigger than a dime -- was centered on the opposite shoulder.

MV is a little under 3300 fps, and that sintered-core bullet groups well under MOA -- thanks in part to it being unlike most stubby lightweights. Due to its construction, it is closer in length to a 52 grain flat-based HP. Yesterday, using new and unsorted brass, I fired a 10-shot, 100 yard group that measured .982 -- and the weather conditions were certainly not conducive to top-notch accuracy.

Now if winter would just hurry up and get here so I could hunt those bobcats...

Sheesh,,

"Seafire is a dirty rotten scoundrel...."

I thought you had it right the first time before you started in on all of those Blue Dot kudos...

But Glad it is working out for you...

Hey mom watch me catch a bullet between my teeth!!!....

..............

Hmm, I might have to try 14 gr of blue dot under a 33 gr V-max.

Blue Dot with a 35 grain V Max isn't that much to write home about.. the load is accurate, but the bullet is short and fat, so it is not very long range aerodynamic....

However, what has come to my attention is the Berger 30 grain HP, that is supposed to be as long as the 40 grain Ballistic Tip and/or I have heard as long as the 50 grain TNTs from Speer....

I am looking forward to picking up a box of those and trying those with 14.5 grains of Blue Dot...in the 223....

and also with 19 grains of Blue Dot in the 22.250

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
...and made me spend more of my hard-earned money tonight for Blue Dot, Blue Dot and MORE Blue Dot -- along with a few bullets, too...

I know what you mean,I started using blue dot in 223 and man they are great.Now I want to start on my 22-250.Seafire,what would be a good start with 50gr bullets in the 22-250 using blue dot?

Take your pick...

Blue Dot Range Report: 22/250

Firearm Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2

Barrel: 22 inch sporter weight

Case: Remington

Range Tested: 7 grains to 20 grains. 20 % ( 6.6 grains) 60 % ( 19.8 grains)

Full Case Capacity to Rim: 33 grains/

Bullets Used in Test:
46 Win HP, 50 Hornady SP, 52 Sierra HP Match, 55 Win FMJ, 60 Hornady SP
63 Sierra SMP


Test Results:

I. 46 grain Winchester Hollow Point, Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1721 fps
2. 8 grs: 1895 fps
3. 9 grs: 2095 fps
4. 10 grs: 2264 fps
5. 11 grs: 2390 fps

6. 12 grs: 2537 fps
7. 13 grs: 2675 fps
8. 14 grs: 2781 fps
9. 15 grs: NO Reading
10. 16 grs: 3063 fps

11. 17 grs: 3177 fps
12. 18 grs: 3274 fps
13. 19 grs: 3388 fps ( Consider Max)
14. 20 grs: 3440 fps ( Extractor Mark, Scrapped Case)

II. 50 grain Hornady SP, Win Large Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1722 fps
2. 8 grs: 1911 fps
3. 9 grs: 2057 fps
4. 10 grs: 2206 fps
5. 11 grs: 2328 fps

6. 12 grs: 2473 fps
7. 13 grs: 2627 fps
8. 14 grs: 2729 fps
9. 15 grs: 2856 fps
10. 16 grs: 2940 fps

11. 17 grs: 3116 fps
12. 18 grs: 3181 fps
13. 19 grs: 3271 fps
14. 20 grs: 3354 fps

With this bullet, all the way to 20 grains was reached ( 60%). However, I would recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


III Sierra 52 grain Hollow Point Match Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7 grs: 1676 fps
2. 8 grs: 1841 fps
3. 9 grs: 1998 fps
4. 10 grs: 2127 fps
5. 11 grs: 2311 fps

6. 12 grs: 2416 fps
7. 13 grs: 2551 fps
8. 14 grs: No Read
9. 15 grs: 2795 fps
10. 16 grs: 2935 fps

11. 17 grs: 3029 fps
12. 18 grs: 3127 fps
13. 19 grs: 3252 fps
14. 20 grs: 3297 fps

This bullet also reached the 20 grains mark ( 60 %) . However once again I recommend max being set at 19 grains or less.


IV Winchester 55 gr FMJ, Win Large Pistol Primer

1. 7grs: 1636 fps
2. 8 grs: 1800 fps
3. 9 grs: 1986 fps
4. 10 grs: 2126 fps
5. 11 grs: 2247 fps

6. 12 grs: 2392 fps
7. 13 grs: 2504 fps
8. 14 grs: 2631 fps
9. 15 grs: 2738 fps
10. 16 grs: 2872 fps

11. 17 grs: 3003 fps
12. 18 grs: 3095 fps
13. 19 grs: 3203 fps
14. 20 grs: 3250 fps

As again Noted, this bullet also achieved reaching the 20 grain Mark ( 60%). However once again I recommend max capacity at 19 grains or less.


V. Hornady 60 grain SP, Win Mag Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1587 fps
2. 8 grs: 1769 fps
3. 9 grs: 1901 fps
4. 10 grs: 2034 fps
5. 11 grs: 2162 fps

6. 12 grs: 2290 fps
7. 13 grs: 2406 fps
8. 14 grs: 2489 fps
9. 15 grs: 2618 fps
10. 16 grs: 2735 fps

11. 17 grs: 2832 fps
12. 18 grs: 2832 fps
13. 19 grs: 3058 fps ( considered max)
14. 20 grs: 3119 fps ( primer leaked, extractor marks, scrapped case)

Max was achieved at 19 grains. Recommend Max load at 19 grains or less.
Based on tree used as back stop, which had a 6 inch diameter to it, bullets at 15 grains of powder and up were penetrating the tree completely. Based on this I would recommend this point as a potential deer load for youths, keeping range within 100 to 125 yds or so ( 30/30 range). The 63 grain Sierra SMP showed a lot more damage to the tree than did the Hornady, and at a much lower velocity. Use on deer is the personal choice of the shooter or adult. Some argue against 22 Center fire on deer and others are just fine with it. Key is shot placement and range limitation. I am just reporting damage to media, and penetration that I am passing on to the reader.



VI. Sierra 63 grain Semi Pointed ( SMP) Win Mag Rifle Primer

1. 7 grs: 1455 fps
2. 8 grs: 1607 fps
3. 9 grs: 1848 fps
4. 10 grs: 1860 fps
5. 11 grs: 2034 fps

6. 12 grs: 2176 fps
7. 13 grs: 2327 fps
8. 14 grs: 2443 fps
9. 15 grs: 2578 fps
10. 16 grs: 2668 fps

11. 17 grs: 2787 fps
12. 18 grs: 2850 fps
13. 19 grs: 2958 fps ( Consider Maximum!, NO problems observed)
14. 20 grs: 2982 fps ( Popped primer, jammed bolt)


Conclusions:

For training and starting out a youth, I consider the 22/250 a better first choice to start out with, based on the test results as compared to a 223. The 223 has the economy of cheaper brass, but the 22/250 I thought offered more flexibility by being able to achieve higher velocities with heavier bullets than the 223 achieves.

For training of youths to deer hunt, the 63 grain bullet offered a lot of promise of everything tested. Results for a 64 grain Winchester would be close to the same, just recommend working up. Start looking for max with 18 grains or so. As one can see, the increase in fps is not that much, and would make no real world difference, as I consider that 200 yds would be max range. I also feel that training a youth not to take shots over that distance is a responsible habit for an adult to teach younger shooters. Let them learn with experience and practice to learn to shoot at longer ranges.

The 22/250 can be loaded down to levels that are between a 22 Long Rifle and a 22 Mag.
The recoil is very low, but also so is the noise at these levels. Especially the 10 grain loads and under. It can also be enjoyable for an adult. My own 22 mags are going to get dusty, as these loads are not only cheaper to shoot, but are more accurate… plus one can have a bullet of his choice instead of what the factory picks to load. At the lower volumes, such as 7 grains and up, these can also make a very satisfactory load for Squirrel hunting, or similar sized game at appropriate ranges. Consult a trajectory chart in some of the commercially available reload manuals. Even at 2000 fps or under, these would make good loads for calling coyotes if you can bring them in at 100 yds or so.
Game bullets would have the punch to drop a coyote at those velocities.

Important Notes:

These loads were tested in cool weather, moist outside and around the 55 to 60 degree ranges. Work up if the higher loads near max are to be used in hot weather.

Bullets were seated out to the magazine length in the Ruger. If your rifle has a tight neck, or a shorter chamber ( Rugers are generous) then work up your loads. Also seating bullets deeper can increase pressures.

Remember Blue Dot is a faster powder. However no filler is needed and I have tested it down to just 10 % of load capacity ( 3.3 grains and it worked just fine). It is not powder position sensitive in the case either.

This data represents data that I have observed. It is shared as a point of reference.
Outcomes are the responsibility of each handloader, who should be careful in his work.

The 22/250 showed me a lot of flexibility here, moreso than the 223 even.
It would be my pick as a better choice for a first rifle for a youth, utilizing this gathered test data.

Cheers and Good shooting
Seafire/ May 11, 2004

Thanks a bunch for the 22-250 info!I started yesterday at 50yards and used 12-15grs with 50gr sierra and all but the last were one ragged hole for 3 shots.Going to try them at 100 yards today.Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by dw06:
Thanks a bunch for the 22-250 info!I started yesterday at 50yards and used 12-15grs with 50gr sierra and all but the last were one ragged hole for 3 shots.Going to try them at 100 yards today.Thanks again.

My Pleasure DW....

Would it be possible for one of those "low volume explosions" to happen with this load?

I hope you have better luck with the Varmint grenades than I have had, I have shot a few ground hogs with the 223 with 24.5 gr h322 and the .222 with 22. gr h322, The first groundhog I shot with the 223 was around 80 yards facing me, the bullet entered the neck and into the body and never exited, the next one i shot with the 223 was at 120 yards behind the sholder, The bullet never opened up and there was a dime sized hole coming out, The next one was a head shot with the 222 at only 40 yards, the bullet only left about a quarter sized exit wound, the last one was a chest shot with the 222 at only 15 yards that did not exit, I shot plastic water bottles at the range, they fragmented out to 100 yards,but the damage was no where near the damage from a v-max, and out of all the bottles i shot at 150 yards none of them opened up and just had a single hole in and single hole out. I also missed two groundhogs and heard both bullets ricochet, something that I very seldom ever hear from a v-max. For fur, no exit at close range and a dime sized exit at long range might not be bad, but its not quite what im looking for, as the 50 grain v-max's that i usually use dont even exit the groundhogs at 300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
Would it be possible for one of those "low volume explosions" to happen with this load?

Pegleg,

Since Blue Dot is considered a pistol and shotgun powder, it ignites easily...

It also lets you know when you are getting near max in load development, instead of having a pressure spike point lurking around on you...

I have used Blue Dot down to 3 grains with no filler in the 223, and down to 4 grains in the 22.250... all have shot accurately and the powder position was not sensitive in the case for reliable ignition.. with either small rifle primers or small pistol primers in the 223, and large rifle or large pistol primers in the 22.250

But like all of these handloads, each person takes his own risks as no one but them can be responsible for their load techniques...

The key to any handloader, is to charge a case and then seat the bullet before moving on to the next round...

Seafire:
Thanks for posting this info.
I've used Red Dot for 30 cals and plinker cast bullets for short range teaching of women and kids how to shoot the big guns without getting hurt by them.

Never gave much thought to loading varmint cals with good bullets and these lighter charges.
Shall make notes and do some experimenting in .223. Don't have any other 224" cal.

I did try the 35gr bullets, were they v max, or something else? IT's been ten yrs or so and man they scattered all over the hillside beyond 250yds I couldn't begin to guess where they might hit. And no two hit within 50 yds of each other either. High, low, left or right, never got one near the center out of about ten shots.

Blew one up on very thin weeds at 90yds on a coyote facing me. Must have stung him as he never slowed from top speed for two miles. had a perfect steady hold in calm weather about sunset. The next day after this is when we shot them at P/dogs and found the scattering shots.

That's impressive velocities too. IF you have the same type records for .223, I'd sure like to have them sent to my e'mail. Would appreciate it. georgeld@hotmail.com

Thanks again,
George

George,

email sent...