Looking at a 25-06 with a 22' barrel. I can convert/tabulate/speculate velocities. Anybody have any chronograph experience with a 25-06 with a barrel between 20"-22"?
For any number of reasons, I wouldn't be interested in a short-barreled .25-06. Generally speaking, barrels should be proportional to the burning rate of the powder a cartridge uses.
The .25-06 needs very slow powders (I use IMR 7828 with 115 gr bullets very successfully in mine.) Such slow powders, despite myths to the contrary, do completely burn in any legal length of rifle barrel, but they also produce much higher muzzle pressure. The muzzle pressure at 19.5" of bullet travel (approximately that you get in a 22" barrel) is significantly higher than the muzzle pressure at 21.5" of bullet travel in a 24" barrel.
High muzzle pressure translates into (1) more potential disturbance of the bullet base as it clears the muzzle (potentially affecting accuracy), (2) greater muzzle blast that is also two inches closer to your eyes and ears, and (3) greater loss of velocity due to the still-high pressure not having the opportunity to continue accelerating the bullet during the final two inches of bullet travel.
It is impossible to say exactly how much velocity loss you might expect. Comparing one gun's 24" barrel with another's 22" barrel is somewhat meaningless -- the only dependable comparison would be to cut the same barrel from 24" to 22". So, if anyone responds that their so-in-so 22" barrel shoots "just as fast" as their buddy's 24" barrel, that may be true, but is also irrelavent.
I know that your primary concern may be velocity. However, to me muzzle blast would be just as great a concern.
Posts: 13245 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
Applauding STONECREEK on his reply! He pretty much nailed it! The 25-06 is best suited to longer barrels(24" and longer) and slow burning powders to fully utilize the capacity and ability of the truly wonderful and amazing 25-06! GHD (Pastor at the church of GHD and the 25-06...........GOD'S chosen chambering!)
Groundhog Devastation(GHD)
Posts: 2495 | Location: SW. VA | Registered: 29 July 2002
I would estimate 35 fps per inch of barrel velocity loss starting with a 24" barrel. My estimate is based on much reading. i.e. a 22" barrel would produce approximately 70 fps less velocity than a 24" barrel.
Posts: 2627 | Location: Where the pine trees touch the sky | Registered: 06 December 2006
I never said the 22" barrel wouldn't kill! i said a 22" barrel didn't utilize all the ability of the chambering! I owned the first STEVENS 200 chambered in 25-06 that was in VA. I had it only for testing and comparison. It shot wonderfully well with bullets from 75 grain VMax up to and incuding the 117 Sierra SBT and the 120 Hornady HP and killed deer with authority out to 305 yards(furtherest distance tested on live game). BUT!!! If I had my druthers, it would be a longer tube for 25-06! Of the three manufacturers you mention, Savage, Stevens, Tikka,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are the three that will deliver the most accuracy out of the box, day in, day out, caliber for caliber, that are affordable to a great many folks!! By the way, if you buy the 22" barreled 25-06, break the barrel in right, save your brass and then reload it with 49.0 grains of IMR 4350 and the 117 grain Sierra or the 120 Hornady HP. For a bit more velocity you can go up to 53.1 grains of H4831 and the same bullet. You want to shoot vermin with it? 49.0-49.7 grains of VARGET and the 75 grain VMax! It will be a head turner no doubt! Either from your being astounded with the accuracy or your friends and buddies reaction to the distinct and absolutely profound report of the 25-06!! GHD
Groundhog Devastation(GHD)
Posts: 2495 | Location: SW. VA | Registered: 29 July 2002
I have seen new shooters that hear things like " I wouldn't have a 25-06 in anything less than a 24 inch barrel" lots of times. What does it really tell them?. Its the guys first post and you fellows are telling him what? Does he get the impession that 25-06 is a great caliber and will shoot real well out of a 22 inch barrel, likely not. FS
Posts: 698 | Location: Edmonton Alberta | Registered: 18 January 2005
Originally posted by Stonecreek: For any number of reasons, I wouldn't be interested in a short-barreled .25-06. Generally speaking, barrels should be proportional to the burning rate of the powder a cartridge uses.
The .25-06 needs very slow powders (I use IMR 7828 with 115 gr bullets very successfully in mine.) Such slow powders, despite myths to the contrary, do completely burn in any legal length of rifle barrel, but they also produce much higher muzzle pressure. The muzzle pressure at 19.5" of bullet travel (approximately that you get in a 22" barrel) is significantly higher than the muzzle pressure at 21.5" of bullet travel in a 24" barrel.
High muzzle pressure translates into (1) more potential disturbance of the bullet base as it clears the muzzle (potentially affecting accuracy), (2) greater muzzle blast that is also two inches closer to your eyes and ears, and (3) greater loss of velocity due to the still-high pressure not having the opportunity to continue accelerating the bullet during the final two inches of bullet travel.
It is impossible to say exactly how much velocity loss you might expect. Comparing one gun's 24" barrel with another's 22" barrel is somewhat meaningless -- the only dependable comparison would be to cut the same barrel from 24" to 22". So, if anyone responds that their so-in-so 22" barrel shoots "just as fast" as their buddy's 24" barrel, that may be true, but is also irrelevant.
I know that your primary concern may be velocity. However, to me muzzle blast would be just as great a concern.
+1 - I prefer that my 25-06s wear 24-26 inch barrels. Lou
**************** NRA Life Benefactor Member
Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001
there are certain things that just don't make any sence. some got close to saying that above and a .25 bore with an '06 case in a 22 inch tube falls directly into the center of that arena. disreguard what the "factories" are doing, they build guns to sell to everyone...that includes those who don't know any better or read too many magazines, in fact,in my opinion, they target those buyers heavily. if you want a short gun in a .25 bore go with the roberts ....even that case can use 25-26 inches of barrel with the heavier bullets.
A .257 Roberts or .25 Souper would be much more practical in a short tube-hell, maybe even a .250 Savage. None of the above mentioned cartridges would give up much if anything in a 22" barrel to a 25/06. This is not to say that the .25/06 isn't a dynamite cartridge-it is-just needs a longer runway.
Praise be to the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
Posts: 427 | Location: Clarkston, MI | Registered: 06 February 2006
A /25-06 with a 22" barrel will work just fine for most shooting, but to get the benefit of hit compared to say, a .257 roberts, you need a longer barrel. If you're going with a shorter barrel, then I think the .257 roberts is a wonderful caliber. If you're going with a .25-06 why not go with the longer barrel to realize the benefits that the caliber is capable of?
My ruger #1 in .25-06 has a 26" barrel, which I think is great for that caliber.
Posts: 3915 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009
there's an idea!..... if it's over-all gun length that bothers you, why not get a #1. with a 26"bbl. it's still only as long as a 22inched bolt gun. so what if you have to keep stuffing shells in it, you don't go after a 25-06 for a fast handling, "quick-shot" type of gun, do you?.
I have a Tikka T3 with a 22” barrel. It was purchased to use with a sound moderator and makes a nicely balanced rifle with the moderator in place. Reason for the 25/06 - the T3 is a long action and I wanted a deer-fox calibre.
Velocities, the maximum I have got with 51.5g of R22 and a 117 Hornady is 2915fps, that averages 2865fps for a working load – effective on 3 species of deer but not was I was expecting. I was so disappointed with the velocities (in the 308 & 7x57 class that I also shoot) that I tried some Federal factory 117 loads, 2772fps.
I have now moved to Speer 100g, 57 R 22 gives 3213 with a SD of 6.11. To date on 3 deer the bullet has performed well and not blown up, early days with this load but it is giving me the higher velocities I wanted. Do I need the higher velocities is another question, I didn’t want to spoil one of my current rifles with a sound moderator, hence the T3.
I have over 30 guns in the safe and have been reloading since 1977. Because I am showing one post does not translate to me being a beginner at this. I do not own a .25 caliber rifle. I normally only buy what I consider "premium rifles". A friend of mine bought one of the new Marlin XL7 in a 30-06. It appears to be a nice gun for the $259 he paid for it. It is also made in a 25-06 with a "22 inch barrel. As I said in my first post I can speculate and estimate/guess as good as the next person. I was looking for someone who "actually" chronographed one with a 22" barrel. I don't believe that a .257 Roberts will have the same velocity as a 25-06 with the same barrel lengths. I have a Ruger RSI 77 .270 (18" barrel); it seems no louder than my 22" .270's.
The deer don't notice the velocity and in woodland situations the range is never sufficient to benefit from a flatter trajectory. On open ground, and especially for fox the flatter trajectory may help - especially if I have a deer 100g load in the rifle and a fox shows.
Truth is the higher the velocity the more critical bullet performance, to date the speer is holding together and not causing excessive carcase damage, if I need to use a premium I will.
He pretty much nailed it! The 25-06 is best suited to longer barrels(24" and longer) and slow burning powders to fully utilize the capacity and ability of the truly wonderful and amazing 25-06! GHD (Pastor at the church of GHD and the 25-06...........GOD'S chosen chambering!)
