The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Why do you like the 243 Win?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Is 350 yards a long way? Trajectory and wind drift to 350 for projectiles bigger than .177 is far from rocket science, and for a target the size of deer boiler room a laser is just reassurance. The problem with the 243 and deer to 350 is the same with the 06 cases and the magnum cases. If you pull it, push it, jerk it, or otherwise screw it you will not hit a terminal spot on your game. Then energy and trajectory and any other ory you want to throw in doesn't matter. It is a question of marksmanship. proper hits even with most unreasonable projectiles results in quick death to deer. With a little practice you will see that a 150 grain sierra will kick the snot out of a pretty big pig at 200 from a 30-30. | |||
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(from previous page)
If you are going to quote laws of physics, at least get them right. Bullets are moved by the wind inversely proportional to the BC, not the individual weight. A 150 grain bullet with a .250 BC will be moved much more than an 80 grain bullet with a .330 BC. In fact, an 80 grain bullet with a .330 BC whose muzzle velocity was 3275fps will move 10 inches in a 10mph crosswind at 350 yards, and 3 inches at 200 yards. On the other hand, a 150 grain flatnose leaving a 30-30 at 2400 fps with a .269 BC will move 6 inches at 200 yards and 20 inches at 350 yards. The problem with the 150 grain is not its weight but its lower BC. The advantage of the 80 grain bullet is its BC and its shorter flight time. NB: I am not advocating using a 30-30 at any distance nor the 243, I am asking that the discussion gets the facts right. As for wind, it is a factor that must be taken into consideration and it can cause the effective range of a rifle to be greatly reduced. If a rifle shoots MOA at 350 yards (which is an accurate rifle by most stardards), that 3.5 inches of uncertainty needs to be coupled to at least another 5 inches of wind uncertainty in a 10mph crosswind, yielding an oblong impact zone about 4 inches high by 9 inches wide approximately 3MOA to the side of the original sightin. (An accurate rangefinder can compensate for bullet drop, which also needs to be adjusted in the sight picture but does not add much uncertainy IF the trajectory, muzzle velocity consistency, and BC have been verified and practiced--a big but a reasonable 'IF'.) Anyone considering shooting animals over 250 yards needs to be aware of their BC and trajectory, and higher BC loads must be used as the distance increases. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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You can rely on the testimony of your three other people and I rely on my own. I shoot 800 - 1,000 yard matches more often than monthly in variable winds. How much do you? Just because your lack of skill and knowledge doesn't enable you to do things don't assume that others can't do it. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Fjold The jerk is so self centered he can't even see what an ass hat he is. His only intention is to bully people on the internet who don't follow his preachings which we aren't sure what they are because he never graced us with an answer. I think bullying is his only real purpose. | |||
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Typical internet chatter. If I can't do it, no one can. If I have never seen it done it hasn't been done. There is a fairly long list that many internet users pull some of this stuff from. I may not agree with what a person says they have done, but I don't remember flat out saying that they did not or could not do it. JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Great on coyotes | |||
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I love the .243 because it works. I shoot a mod 70 varminter made in 56' and am amazed at the accuracy, I do not use it on whitetails any more as I have a dozen better suited for the job, pet factory ammo is Fed prem 70 gr BT's . the gun has shot sub 1 1/4" , 5 shot groups at 300 yd.s on bluebird ,cool days. Folks spend big money on custom rigs that will shoot not a lot better. very best  | |||
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Nilo Plantation, I live and hunt, ranch about 40 miles south of Nilo, I was lucky enough to visit Nilo in the late 70's as I sold them fertilizer and crop protection chems. The gun room would take your breath away. I could stand there in awe for half a day.I grew up shooting Winchester and still love em today, from single shot mod 67 all the way to .338 win mag mod 70 Alaskan.... very best | |||
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Nilo plantation is in GA, right? Nilo Farms is is Illinois , just outside St Louis. | |||
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Nice shooting Frank! I'm not wading into this one. If it's something you can shoot well then have a good time. | |||
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Last weekend I bought another 243. Nevertheless, for most of my hunting it is really not a caliber that I find that useful and this is what I really don't like. If you know exactly what you are hunting and the 6mm is appropriate then it can be a very good choice for an experienced hunter. Most of my hunting is either/or/and and let's say I'm in the Kalahari out hunting and I see the Gemsbok of a lifetime I don't want to have to leave him be because I have the springbok rifle. A 6mm is just really limiting in those types of circumstances. For specialised Springbok hunts or similar (say up to blesbuck) they are awesome. In the US where your tag is generally for a specifc species (as I understand), you again don't have this problem as you know what your will shoot. Many people see a .243 as the ideal beginners rifle. For hunting though beginners are less clued up on anatomy and can be poorer hunting shots due to nerves. Then a 6mm doesn't cut you much slack at all. Low recoil is not the sole reason to choose a rifle for a beginner's first hunt. I downloaded a .308 for that and loaded it up when the hunting was on and my beginner didn't sense a difference. For general hunting down this way the .243 is a very limiting caliber. That said, it's really popular, so go figure. | |||
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Yes, Africa presents a different picture. I'm thinking that the little Ruger Compact 338 RCM would be an awesome rifle combo for a young, small-stature hunter. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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From the other angle, looking at the 6x45 (243/223Rem) option on another thread, one must say that the 6x45 pushes maginality and minimalness. The 243 Win should remain the standard bar for 6mm hunting. In a world where powder is available and a second barrel or rifle is eventually available, the 243 would be a natural choice over the 6x45. The 243 for deer is already minimal in many people's minds without taking even more of its potential away. Only where number of rounds per pound of powder were a serious consideration would a 6x45 challenge the 243. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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my first hunting rifle was a Sako 75 in .243, I hunted all 6 wild UK deer with it even big red deer, with a range of bullet weights from 55-105grn its such a versatile calibre, I hunt still with a .243, I love it! Relax and light a Cuban. | |||
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High shoulder, so yes it was a spine shot. A Girl, An Elk, A 243 Win/105VLD and 688yds makes elk steaks You can read the whole story above. I don't believe one elk killed with a .243 is statistical proof that it is an effective cartridge on elk. I do however believe that in the hands of the right person it is an effective cartridge.
I shoot the slightly larger brother the 6X47(.222 RM) and have taken one small pronghorn by buck with it. The shot was a full on frontal at 300+ yards, buck spun at the shot and piled up in about 25-30 yards. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on mule deer or white tail as long as the shots were kept to around 300 yards or less. Pretty much the only bullet that I use is a 70 grain Nosler BT. Yes it is a varmint bullet, and I'm going to try some Speer 80 grain Deep Curl when I find some, but I'm not holding my breath they will be accurate as the rifle has a lazy twist. Even though I've used a varmint bullet at the speeds it is going it doesn't perform like a varmint bullet. I'm getting best accuracy with the bullet at 3060 fps at the muzzle. I'm at 2800 fps @ 100, 2500 fps @ 200, and 2200 fps @ 300, and to me any way a lot of cup and core bullets seem to kill things well at 2800 fps or less. | |||
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Back to the original question - Why do I like it? Less recoil! Accurate! Comes in a variety of rifle types! Comes in the new Remington R15! Ammo is cheap! My son and I have taken numberous deer, antelope, one kudu, springbok, blesbok and other African stuff with it. An 85 or 100gr Nosler Partition or TSX works on most animals without an issue. | |||
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Ok so this is what we LIKE about the 243 and I could start a new thread about what we don't but this thread has sort of got to both sides now. That video of the elk shot with the 243 is a good example of what I don't like. The low recoil leads people to think that the 243 is a good beginners rifle and yes, beginners can shoot it well, but then the envelope is pushed and generally pushed too far. Would John Burns choose it to shoot the elk if he were the hunter? Probably not. Dogcat has shot a kudu wiht a 243, and I'm sure it was stone dead. I'm not sure whether it was a body shot, but I've seen kudu deader than disco after a body shot from a 243 and from a 222 (in fact those guys did it regularly on their farm). It still isn't my choice if I know I may shoot kudu. As I said before if it's one of those cases of "I saw this great kudu and all I had was my 243, but I knew I could shoot it really well, so..." then fair enough. But that's what I don't like, a 243 will make you choose and probably you will end up shooting animals when you are undergunned. Now you can all get worked up, but those of us who have ever hunted with a handgun place ourself in that position knowingly, so I'm not judging it, but that is the reality of it. | |||
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Leadwood, Seems you and I are in agreement. Different from many other posters, but, then our experiences have been different. Great minds think alike ... or maybe fools never differ as one of my old teachers used to say.  -- Promise me, when I die, don't let my wife sell my guns for what I told I her I paid for them. | |||
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John Burns has used the .243 on elk before and talked about it on the forum I pulled the video off of. While I'm sure it isn't always his first choice of elk rifles he has enough experience with it he trusts it to get the job done. | |||
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What do you think he would say if given a choice between a 20" barrel Ruger Compact 338RCM, 185 grain TTSX at 2800fps, versus a 20" barrel Win Feath.Comp 243 Win, 80 gnTTSX at 3275fps? +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Leadwood, I agree. A .243 is not my choice for kudu or anything larger than bushbuck or springbok. We used it on kudu because we had a perfect rest, and a perfect broadside shot in the heart. I do not like the .243 for anything bigger than 50-60 kilos. | |||
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In other words, animals like puku, cob, impala, and bushbuck. That's about my feeling, too. It will surely take hartebeests and waterbuck, but I would prefer something more substantial. I'm thinking that for my wife and daughter-in-law, it would be better to bring something over to Africa in the 3000-3300 ftlb range and to leave the 243 in the US. It's not that the 243 wouldn't be used in Africa, it's just that the paperwork and ammunition hasstles aren't worth a specialty gun until an all-purpose rifle is available for them. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I don't know and I'm not going to hazard the guess. Why don't you head over and ask him the question on the link I posted? Get it from the horses mouth so to speak, instead of baiting other posters into answering for him. We obviously know which cartridge you would choose. | |||
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You can play that "what if" game until you're blue in the face!!! How about this "What if" game ... 20" barrel Win Feath.Comp 243 Win, 80 gnTTSX at 3275fps, versus a 20" barrel Win Feath.Comp 243 Win, 95 gn NP at 3000fps, versus a 20" barrel Win Feath.Comp 243 Win, 70 gn BT at 3600fps? Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Hi Graybird, Well, for edible game, I'll take the 20" barrel with 80TTSX since it's flat with relatively good penetration, followed by the 3000fps NP since it has better penetration than the ballistic tip. The choices underline the flexibility of the 243. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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You're exactly right and the point of my post. We can tailor the answer to the "what if" game simply by the answers we propose to be correct. I'm currently shooting the 80 gr TTSX in my 243 at an average of 3415 fps. It hasn't let me down to-date on the four animals I've used it on in the past two hunting seasons. All required a single shot with a whitetail doe making it the farthest about 50 yards on a death sprint, while the other three dropped at the shot. I'm considering taking this same rifle and load with me to RSA next June for use on bushbuck, common reedbuck, oribi, and vaal rhebok. I'll be using either my 300 WM or 375 H&H on the zebra and a shotgun for the red and blue duiker. Sure I could use the 300 WM or 375 on the other four outlined above, but what fun is that? Besides, I've shot several whitetails with the same 300 WM and if you hit them in the shoulder, you've got a mess on your hands, and I would prefer to not blow up the capes on my African trophies. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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I would bet the TTSX would penetrate more than the partition. | |||
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the 243 will work  In fact, a 416 Rigby can work on oribi   Oribi, 201 yards, Oct 2012, 416Rig +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I could take my Rigby along, too, but I don't think a little oribi needs that big a hole in it!  I tried to 'catch' an 80 gr TTSX from my 243 using milk jugs filled with water. I place 4 half gallon milk jugs at the front followed by two - one gallon milk jugs on the backside at 100 yards. We figured it was roughly 26" of water and didn't catch the bullet as it exited the last milk jug. Plenty of penetration from a 80 grain bullet. Regaring the use of the (T)TSX bullets, in my experience it is surprising they do very little tearing of the skin on the opposite side of the animal as it passes thru. Here is a picture of a blackbuck I shot with my 300 WM using a 180 grain TSX bullet at roughly 75 yards.  Notice the nice round hole. I was aiming for center of shoulder on the opposite side as it was a quartering shot. The buck spun around and drop about 25 yards from the initial point of impact. Here is a picture of an antelope doe I shot last year right on the property border with my 243/80 gr TTSX combo. Had she went under the fence, she would have been on the neighbor's property. The shot was 228 yards while she was thinking about sneaking under the fence. I shot her thru the shoulders as I wanted to anchor her, and that it did breaking both shoulders as it passed thru.  You can see where she stumbled a couple of feet before hitting the dirt.  I think this little combo will be perfect for the animals I'm looking at taking next year in RSA. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Nice animals. I still haven't figured out why TSX make small exit holes most of the time, but still tear up the insides. I don't really think that 'they expend all their energy inside the animal'. That explanation can't work at different impact velocities. So I have a suspicion that it is related to cutting through the rubbery skin rathen than blasting through. The oribi above, though, was also a TSX, and tore up the outside as well as the inside. didn't find the heart. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Here is another picture of the blackbuck with a piece of lung hanging out of the exit side. It fell out after I touched it. It was like it had been cut and was coming out with the bullet but managed to stay wedged in the exit wound.  I shot a common duiker with my 300 WM and 180 gr TSX at about 30 yards. It entered just behind the shoulder and exited just behind his last rib as he was quartering to me. As it passed thru the paunch and intestines, it sucked about half of them out of the exit hole, yet the exit hole was still about the size as the blackbuck above. I would have hated to have seen the mess had I shot that duiker with a Nosler Partition, which was what I was using prior to switching to the Barnes bullets. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Ouch! That is quite a bit of damage from a TSX and the animals I've sheen shot with them. Good thing you didn't use a more expanding bullet like a NP, A-frame, etc. Wow, what a mess!!!! Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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I like all the rounds pretty much that were based on the 308 case. Right now my favorite is the 7 MM 08but I still keep 2 rifles in 243 in the safe for fun shooting. Light recoil and easy brass and loaded rounds to find in just about every one stop lite town. I've shot little tiny red squirrels with it at some far distances as well as snow shoe hares, crows, chucks, coons, p0ssums and deer. Aint afraid to use it for a deer rifle at all, like any other cartrage in the hands of a seldem shooter it may or may work just like a 460 express may or may not. In our earlier days we used to bet on who could hit the milk jug cap at long distances and shooting other objects like apples from trees in the orchard. We have a fun day every year on the farm after the hay is off. Golf balls are the favorite target to shoot casue we can get the summer golf guys to drive them out in the field for us to judge the distance and shoot. There is some big money that passes hands at these shoots. Of course we have a class rule so we do not compete againest special rifles and bigger or smaller calibers.  AlGarden View Apiaries where the view is as sweet as the honey. | |||
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Nothing not to like about the 243. It is crazy that the 223 gets less flack than the 243 as a deer cartridge. I have generally used the bigger cartridges for deer from 270/7mm rounds up to the 30's. That said I have killed a fair number of deer and hogs with the 243. I really don't need more gun for the vast majority of my deer hunting. This year I am planning on using the 70 gr. Nosler BT at around 3400 fps to take deer with and already this year brained a hog with it. I find the round to inflict a lot of damage to what ever it hits and have never had a penetration problem. I have found some factory loads with too soft 100 gr. bullets loaded in them, notably the Federal 100 grain power shok out of the blue box. Testing shows the 70 gr. BT to out penetrate it and retain more weight! Plus the Federal factory ammo was loaded way too hot in that lot. Anyway shoot what you like, it is considered poor taste to denigrate another mans choice of rifle. | |||
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Sure you might hit a piece of paper. But at those ranges your energy level is pitiful and is not defendable. Shot as far as you want? That is still the testimony of a gut shooter. You inflated your ego on the range but that does not mean you will not have real animals run off in field shooting conditions - and you know it.
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Sure you do crazy nag, You comment on .223 shooters a lot as I remember. Right?
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Snelly What can you add to this other than smell? You seem to have an opinion but you have no information to add. What answer do you think it needs? I am sure all of these long rangers never admit that they have to chase down animals and the animals can only be retrieved because they hunt in wide open plains. Put these bozos in broken county and many of their long range shots will result in a lost animal.
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Olarmy You come back and admit that some of your claims are "TYPOS". Not a very good indication that any of the rest of your claims are very accurate.
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wow. exquisite logic... | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Why do you like the 243 Win?
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