This came up in another thread; why is there no WSM or WSSM adaptation that uses 6.5mm bullets?

I ask because it seems everyone loves the 6.5x55 and the 6.5x68s and so forth. Plus they seem to almost be naturally accurate (witness here 6.5BR).

There was a 6.5 Remington mag some time back, was it a true "short mag"? On another note, any reloaders have experience necking down (or up) the WSM or WSSM case to 6.5mm?

The 6.5's just aren't that popular in the states, and hence Winchester didn't see the $ in introducing another 6.5.

I think we have great 6.5 cartridges now to choose from, on the market. A WSSM would be a good hunting round, and a WSM would be a long range supreme, but barrel life on the WSM is about 800 rounds from what a gunsmith tells me, and that is an extra 60-70 cents per shot!

I believe the 'industry' jumped the gun and thought 'short and fat' would sell alot of new rifles and ammo, and made the new ctg's VERY FAT and short.

There has been some feeding problems associated with them, which is something you don't get with more traditional hunting ctg's engineered as much for reliable feeding, more taper, and not as sharp shouldered. Theoretically not as potentially accurate, but if you get a good 260, 6.5x55, or 6.5/284 (if you can accept a barrel life of say 1500-2000 rounds), you have a lot of accuracy, and at least with 260 and 6.5x55, great smooth feeding in a repeat bolt rifle.

To your point, there ARE some hardcore 'wildcatter's" who are experimenting with both and enjoying them, accepting the pros and cons.

Look for Hornady and TC to do a 25 and 270 version of the 30TC. Shorter, less taper, and sharper shoulder than 308, efficient yes, a practical improvement-debatable.

But to Paul's comment, 6.5's just are not appreciated here, obviously when US companies choose a 25 cal over 6.5, that says it all. The 250 savage and 25-06, and lets remember the 257 roberts also, have a following and are good rounds, but ammo and components are less available. The 25 WSSM was said to be a great round, a 6.5 may have been also if done.

I doubt there are many variations of a 6.5 that has yet to be done, that leaves a void for a mfg to commercialize and bring to market in the US. The 260, 6.5x55, 6.5/284, and 264 magnum likely shares 90-95% or more of 6.5 users in the US, save the 6.5 Jap and Carcano mil surp rifles, many collecting dust and rust.

I can say I was looking for a 6.5 version myself as I had no need for a wssm in 24 or 25 cal myself. Nor have I bought any others, a 6.5 WOULD have had my interest, not sure if I would chosen over what is now available though.

Simply put; No market for it.No need, limited want. roger

6.5BR-

Why would the 6.5WSM have a shorter barrel life than a .264 Winchster Magnum?

I am not trying to be argumentative but, I am having a hard time accepting the assertion that the 6.5WSM is hard on barrels. The .264 Winchester had that same reputation and that was largely unfounded.

I certainly like my .264/6.5WSM.

I am passing on what a gunsmith told me who builds them, he said you can 'set the barrel back' and get more, but does not get alot of rounds out of a barrel. As to how the WSM compares to the 264, not sure on capacity differences, but would feel that if they are similar, the differences would not be that great, but perhaps a shorter fatter design forces powder into throat somewhat sooner, I am not a 'ballistician' so don't know the 'science' behind it. I do know the WSM is more a hot rod compared to milder rounds, as is the 264. I would say for a big game hunter, who quickly finds a decent load and minimizes 'volume shooting' at the range, then one could get more mileage in a hunting rifle.

I think the 260 and 6.5x55 in good rifles can take a lot of game within 300-400 yds, many guys using say 260 and 260 AI to 500-600 yds on deer with 140 amax, see longrangehunting.com

Surely a 'faster 6.5' gives better trajectory and energy way out there, at a price. I think barrel life is a consideration, but in a hunting rifle that is carried more, and shot at a minimum in load development, than you still have some barrel life to get some use in the field. I just don't like the idea of burning a barrel out as quick as the hotter rounds can and do.

I would say shooting 2 or 3 shot groups (may get flamed on this) vs 5 shot groups would help, and consistent 2 or 3 shot groups can tell you what you need to know often as the first shot is usually the one that counts and is your best opportunity in the field, that would 'extend your barrel life' saving it for the field.

What have you experienced with your 6.5's?

One thing to note, often barrel life as measured by gunsmiths are in terms of keeping top grade 'bench accuracy' and it is plausible the numbers are 'shorter' as they like to stay busy in the machine shop!

The 6.5WSSM (and the 6.5WSSM improved) are the current "latest greatest" on the 1,000 yard Benchrest circuit. Shot some world records last summer. See Benchrest.com for more info. FWIW, Dutch.

Glad to hear that! Maybe Winchester will continue to make brass for my 25WSSM!

quote:

Originally posted by 30 Caliber Mag Fan:
6.5BR-

Why would the 6.5WSM have a shorter barrel life than a .264 Winchster Magnum?

I am not trying to be argumentative but, I am having a hard time accepting the assertion that the 6.5WSM is hard on barrels. The .264 Winchester had that same reputation and that was largely unfounded.

I certainly like my .264/6.5WSM.

It wouldn't. Barrel life is very dependent upon how a barrel is used and cared for.

I don't think the market would be there for it. I mean is it really going to do any better than the 270WSM or the 25WSSM.

I'm waiting on my new 6.5wsm barrel now! It's a 28" PacNor 1 in 8 twist supper match straight taper stainless w/ 11 deg crown

going to try 142 and 140g matchkings and US869 and Retumbo powders.

I'll let you know how it goes

The rumor that WSM's or WSSM's is hard on barrels or have shorter than normal barrel life is unfounded. Since the WSM or WSSM is really NOT A MAGNUM and do NOT deliver any faster velocitys than the standard calibers how can they be harder on a barrel?
As for a 6.5 WSM I think Remington beat Winchester to the punch with the 6.8SPR they developed for the military this is basicly a 270 ultra short delivering 270 Ballistics out of an extra short action with a 115 Grn Bullet. From what i have read about them they work real well in the AR type action but I have not acctually seen one but given the number of AR parts distributors offering uppers in this chambering it must be catching on. I prefer the 6MM myself

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
I would say shooting 2 or 3 shot groups (may get flamed on this) vs 5 shot groups would help, and consistent 2 or 3 shot groups can tell you what you need to know often as the first shot is usually the one that counts and is your best opportunity in the field, that would 'extend your barrel life' saving it for the field.!

If anybody flames you they're just igniting farts. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch:
The 6.5WSSM (and the 6.5WSSM improved) are the current "latest greatest" on the 1,000 yard Benchrest circuit. Shot some world records last summer. See Benchrest.com for more info. FWIW, Dutch.

Hmmmm......
That's interresting!!

That 6,5 WSSM has been in back of my head for some time now. What velocities can be expected from a 140 grainer from that stubby case?
I've started to like the 6,5 as a match calibre for long range shooting. I use a 6,5-06 now, and love to get +/- 3000 f/s with 140 grainers.

I Have shot 984 rounds out of my M-70 blued bbl. to date.
All sorts of bullet brands and weights, powders, primers and such. Thoroughly clean every 25 rds.
No visable sign of throat erosion. Keeps getting more accurate!!! Cronograph readings still stable from the first 200 rds till now for the various loads selected for crono.

It was a 25 WSSM, sorry.

Although I really like the .264" bore and have 20-something firearms chambered for 6.5mm cartridges, I think that for hunting purposes, the 25 WSSM has the SSM market, in there is 1, covered and the 270 WSM has the SM market covered, so there isn't any room or demand for a 6.5mm SSM or SM.

I was all ready to build a 6.5-300 WSM, but then I got my 270 WSM and decided that it would do everything that I wanted/needed in a sub-.308" bore SM with less fuss.

I do like the 25 WSSM and have now shot around 900 rounds of factory ammo and reloads through 4 different Winchester/USRA 70s. My Shilen barreled 70 Super Shadow is scary accurate with the 75 grain VMax and in the next week or so I'm planning to load up a batch of 400 cartridges in anticipation of pdog shooting in SD later this Spring!

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by blinddog:
As for a 6.5 WSM I think Remington beat Winchester to the punch with the 6.8SPR they developed for the military this is basicly a 270 ultra short delivering 270 Ballistics out of an extra short action with a 115 Grn Bullet.

I highly doubt Remington's 6.8 is going to produce 270 Win ballistics;

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/remington_0303/

115 grain bullet at 2800 fps, as opposed to 130 grains at 3000+ fps.

Right, some one did not do their home work, I KNOW a 6.8 is SHORT on ballistics vs 270 Win by a significant margin, it has to be using so much less powder.

Next, the WSM IS in magnum class re: FPS/ft lbs
WSSM is doing very well also,

I READ the 6.5 WSSM CAN push a 140 at 3300 or so, but that MAY have been a misprint/typo and the writer may have been referring to the WSM.

Confusing I know. I agree with above poster, for a hunting rifle, using a std 270 WSM won't make a gun maker happy (unless someone custom orders it over a 6.5 and they do, but many users have factory rifles), but it should do just about the same in the field with a good bullet ie. 140 accubond as a 6.5. A 6.5 may always edge a .277 and .284 in drop and accuracy, but the difference may not be noticable in the field, the WSM's, have a good reputation for accuracy in a well built rifle-factory or custom, with good loads, factory or handloads.

I agree with the above poster, 25 has the SSM market and the 270 does the SM case well.

On longrangehunting.com there are those who use 6.5, 7mm and 300 WSM all with success, often using the heaviest bullets available, as these guys practice and some hunt, or plan for shots while hunting at 500-1000 yds. I am not here to debate ethics, for those experts that range with LRF and practice OFTEN at long distance, they may have confidence and ability to do it, and well, but for many like me that don't get that kind of range time, nor have the interest in firing at a game animal that far for various reasons, my shots will always be kept largely at 400 and under.

To 300 yds in hunting, a 200-250 zero will do fine with any normal cartridge. From 300 and further, faster speed may lessen ranging errors by straightening trajectory. Regardless of what we choose, we must know our capabilities as a shooter, as well as the performance window of our bullet/load combo.

That said, the poster that has been taking care of his rifle by not abusing it, and cleaning it often, will serve well if he does not prematurely wear the throat by an off center cleaning rod contacting that throat. Not that he will, but some barrels do get damaged or worn early by cleaning too often, when not done properly.

I know the competitive shooters often try many new things, barrels, cartridges, etc and in the quest for setting new records or winning matches, are willing to forego barrel life for accuracy, and that is fine.

If you look at 6mmBR.com, you will notice there also are shooters who compete VERY well, having made records also using 105-108gr bullets in fast twist 6mm BR's. 6.5 mm's sometimes can edge them in wind deflection, but the 6 BR's continue to amaze many, they shoot with such low std deviation, and are so accurate/consistent, that getting the 'clicks right' in the scope can offset some of the difference in wind. 1000 yds shooting must be I can imagine an Art and Skill. So many variables.

I believe a Tikka 6.5x55 Continental factory heavy barrel set a record at 1000 yds having 10 shots in 4.4"

I doubt I will ever hold that well, if I ever do shoot at 1000. The shooter, rifle, and load must be commended. Yes, the 6.5mm's are a top pick when you really need to reach out and touch something. Perhaps the capabilities in a 6.5WSM would never be 'realized' by average hunters, since so many other cartridges currently chambered in factory guns can do the job well at most ranges game is taken.....by the typical hunter.

I don't know for sure, but if I were to build a 6.5WSM which I consider a very high performance round, I'd stuff it with 140's, to make use of it's potential, that said, there likely will be little to no difference in recoil vs a 270 WSM. I DO see more sense for the average person in a 6.5 based on the WSSM case. But, as said above, what would it offer that a 25 WSSM does not I am not sure, considered what the intended application might be.....as a deer/varmint round, the 25 should do just as well, although I have only owned one 25 in my life, an '06 version in a Ruger #1B, mild recoil, flat, very accurate, and traded it off for no reason other than it did not interest me.

25 WSSM should be more popular, the barrel burning concern in my mind is fact and fiction, the WSM's will have a shorter life than say a standard 308 or '06 case, yet the WSSM's reputation on barrel wear was apparently prematurely made based on barrels that were badly fouled, having lost accuracy, and just needed a good cleaning. Surely a 223 will last longer than a WSSM version, and perhaps a 243 will outlast somewhat a WSSM version, but many of the WSM and WSSM rounds may not stand the test of time, I think a few will.

I would personally have rather seen a 6.5 and 338 version over the say 7mm and 325, but as we know, at least when talking US market and metric cartridges, the 7mm's always outsold the 6.5's, as have the 270. that left a void for us 6.5 fans.

Perhaps a 6.5 will come but I am not going to hold my breath for the US industry to do it. BTW, looked at what the competitive shooters were playing with, awhile back they were working with both, some having found the WSSM case, improved did about 140-142 right at 3000 of course using the longer tubes they do, and less capacity than a 284 case, so potential for a little longer barrel life. For competition it has something to offer say my 7mm-08 cannot do quite as well at long range.

PacNor chambers barrels for a 6.5 WSSM if anyone is interested in that fact... they are available on a rebarrel project...

Darnit Seafire, keep it up, and I might have to try one!

No, for me, now, I'll stick to others, but it's hard not to like any 6.5, just prefer more mileage. Perhaps if I had a lathe, I might spin a few versions!