Am looking at a .257 Roberts in a falling block action. I have not had good luck with my current .257, and am wanting opinions on the accuracy commonly found in the .257 Roberts. Also just wanted thoughts on favorite small bores for deer sized game, and for women and beginning shooters to enjoy?

My thoughts are favoring .243, but I know there are several other fine small bores that don't have much recoil.

Thanks for your thoughts.

The 257 Roberts is a fine round, as is the 243. I have owned both and currently have a 223Rem 257 Roberts ,and 25-06 Rem. The 257 has an advantage in bullet weights over the 243, but are nearly identical with the 100grs. Both work well on whitetail deer, with the 87gr and the 100gr. Recoil is mild and very manageable. If I were going to choose I would go with the 257 Roberts, only if your reloading all your rounds, sometimes it's hard to find ammo on the shelf. Either round will do the job on deer and will be a great starting rifle, its just a matter personal preference and opinion. Good luck with whatever round you choose.

Have never owned a Roberts, but the old 250 Savage the Ole Man built for me was dead nuts accurate

My Roberts is one of the rifles I own I wouldn't trade off for anything.

That said, I got my boys .243's because I couldn't find youth models in .257 Roberts. I don't believe there's a hill of beans difference between them in 100gr or less weight bullets but the Roberts shines with 115gr and up. Accuracy wise... it doesn't depend much on chambering but on the rifle, stock, and load.

I found some great loads for my Roberts that I still use, and am still trying different recipes for the boys rifles. Nate

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Accuracy wise... it doesn't depend much on chambering but on the rifle, stock, and load.

My .257 Roberts is really accurate as is my gals and my brother has 2 that also shoot about 1/2" groups too.
What kind of bad luck you having with your current .257?

My favorite small bore is the 6.5x55. Recoil is very mild, and heavy-for-caliber bullets are available that make it capable of taking up to elk sized game.

I have used a .243 extensively, and the 6.5 with 140 grain bullets is leaps and bounds better on deer IMO. Not that the .243 won't do the job admirably, I just prefer the almost guaranteed exits I get with the 6.5. With my .243 I have had numerous failures to exit.

I really like my Roberts, but it is a handloading proposition.

The advantages of the .243 are the many choices in factory rounds, and 55-60grn bullets for varmints. If you are looking for a dedicated deer rifle the Roberts is the way to go.

tc98---When introducing a person to shooting you do not want to expose them to very much recoil or blast. What may be very mild to you could be severe for them. A person that shoots a 30-06 for example would find a .243 to be mild. A youngster that has never shot would find it severe. You have a Roberts they could try and if it is too much, a .243 would be also. I'd drop on down to .223.

I have a variety of 25's. My Roberts is an excellent shooter.My most accurate 25's are both 250/3000 Ackley Improved. One is a sporter weight and the othe is a varmint weight. The 25 that I would choose for a novice shooter(adult or youth) is the 250/3000(250Savage). It can be had in the Savage 14 currently. The major drawback of 25's is a lack of "good" factory ammo. Accorging to some of my hunting buddies the 100gr Rem Core-locts in 25/06 are pretty good. Beyond that ammo for Roberts and 250Sav. is a crap shoot. All of my 25's prefer 100gr bullets.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

The 257R is hard to beat. It really shines with 115-120 cup and core bullet weights or 100 grain monometals. The recoil is extremely mild even from my lightweight Kimber. I can't think of a better caliber for a young shooter that they won't outgrow.

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My favorite small bore is the 6.5x55. Recoil is very mild, and heavy-for-caliber bullets are available that make it capable of taking up to elk sized game.

I gotta argree 100%.

Not to wander too far of course here but for the sake of a few thousands bullet diameter I consider many of the 6.5's and the .257's to be in pretty much the same performance class.

.257 Weatherby, 25-06 Remington, 250 Savage, a 6.5x57, 6.5x57R and a 6.5x55 Swede are what we're shooting and these are good cartridges. Of those above the only two I'd suggest similar to the .243 Win. for a novice Nimrod/Shooter would be the 250 Savage or the Swede.

All of these .257's & 6.5'S are pretty much niche cartidges and finding suitable Youth type rifle in other than a .243 Win. may proove to be a challenge.

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Originally posted by kjjm4:
My favorite small bore is the 6.5x55. Recoil is very mild, and heavy-for-caliber bullets are available that make it capable of taking up to elk sized game.

I have used a .243 extensively, and the 6.5 with 140 grain bullets is leaps and bounds better on deer IMO. Not that the .243 won't do the job admirably, I just prefer the almost guaranteed exits I get with the 6.5. With my .243 I have had numerous failures to exit.

My favorite small bore is also the 6.5x55. Since building myself one I have lost interest in the .257, .243, and the like. They are still fine rounds but the 6.5x55 seems to be easier to get to shoot and I like the bullets better than the 25's.

I consider the .260 as good especially if you like shooting short actions.

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My favorite small bore is also the 6.5x55

add me to this side.

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Originally posted by rolltop:

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My favorite small bore is also the 6.5x55

add me to this side.

I love that round as well. 155 Lapua Mega is my favorite bullet for it.

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Originally posted by Snellstrom:
My .257 Roberts is really accurate as is my gals and my brother has 2 that also shoot about 1/2" groups too.
What kind of bad luck you having with your current .257?

It's shooting 1.5" plus groups with factory rounds. Just breaking the barrel in, and have not been able to get it to shoot under 1.5" three shot groups. I've been letting the barrel cool good between shots, I've shot 3 in a row with about 2 min. between, and still no better. I've worked the bore with J&B, then conditioned with Montana Extreme bore conditioner. May trade if I can come up with enough trading guns to get my hands on a Dakota Model 10. Don't have any experience with Dakota's, and they are really high priced. It is a sweet feeling gun though. Help!!!!!!

My 257 is a custom on a Mdl 70 classic action with a 22" Lilja 3 groove barrel. It's a rather heavy contour. It will consistantly shoot 5 shot groups under 3/8th inch with 110gr Nosler AccuBonds. Don't think I could handle any more accurate a rifle.

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Originally posted by tc98:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
My .257 Roberts is really accurate as is my gals and my brother has 2 that also shoot about 1/2" groups too.
What kind of bad luck you having with your current .257?

It's shooting 1.5" plus groups with factory rounds. Just breaking the barrel in, and have not been able to get it to shoot under 1.5" three shot groups. I've been letting the barrel cool good between shots, I've shot 3 in a row with about 2 min. between, and still no better. I've worked the bore with J&B, then conditioned with Montana Extreme bore conditioner. May trade if I can come up with enough trading guns to get my hands on a Dakota Model 10. Don't have any experience with Dakota's, and they are really high priced. It is a sweet feeling gun though. Help!!!!!!

I have periodically lusted after a Model 10. If you go that route, it opens up a fair number of chambering options. The model 10 is available in just about all the chamberings we've mentioned in this thread.

Just out of curiousity, how many different loads have you tried in your .257 Bob? What make/model of rifle is it, and have you tried doing any bedding work?

Even if you can't get it to shoot any better, 1.5" groups are perfectly acceptable for 90% of deer hunting.

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Originally posted by kjjm4:

quote:

Originally posted by tc98:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
My .257 Roberts is really accurate as is my gals and my brother has 2 that also shoot about 1/2" groups too.
What kind of bad luck you having with your current .257?

It's shooting 1.5" plus groups with factory rounds. Just breaking the barrel in, and have not been able to get it to shoot under 1.5" three shot groups. I've been letting the barrel cool good between shots, I've shot 3 in a row with about 2 min. between, and still no better. I've worked the bore with J&B, then conditioned with Montana Extreme bore conditioner. May trade if I can come up with enough trading guns to get my hands on a Dakota Model 10. Don't have any experience with Dakota's, and they are really high priced. It is a sweet feeling gun though. Help!!!!!!

I have periodically lusted after a Model 10. If you go that route, it opens up a fair number of chambering options. The model 10 is available in just about all the chamberings we've mentioned in this thread.

Just out of curiousity, how many different loads have you tried in your .257 Bob? What make/model of rifle is it, and have you tried doing any bedding work?

Even if you can't get it to shoot any better, 1.5" groups are perfectly acceptable for 90% of deer hunting.

My current rifle is a Kimber Model 84 Select Grade. I have not worked on any loads yet as the factory loads aren't even close to adequate.

This is 1 1/2 year old rifle, and has only been shot at the range. It has not had over 20 shots fired. Looks as I my need to send it back to Kimber.

While I have a .257AI and do use it on occasion for deer it is my heavy varmint rifle. If I were to have a dedicated small bore light deer rifle it would be a .260 or 6.5x55. I also believe any youngin or female who hunts deer should be able to handle these rounds in a properly fitting rifle.

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Originally posted by tc98:

quote:

Originally posted by kjjm4:

quote:

Originally posted by tc98:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
My .257 Roberts is really accurate as is my gals and my brother has 2 that also shoot about 1/2" groups too.
What kind of bad luck you having with your current .257?

It's shooting 1.5" plus groups with factory rounds. Just breaking the barrel in, and have not been able to get it to shoot under 1.5" three shot groups. I've been letting the barrel cool good between shots, I've shot 3 in a row with about 2 min. between, and still no better. I've worked the bore with J&B, then conditioned with Montana Extreme bore conditioner. May trade if I can come up with enough trading guns to get my hands on a Dakota Model 10. Don't have any experience with Dakota's, and they are really high priced. It is a sweet feeling gun though. Help!!!!!!

I have periodically lusted after a Model 10. If you go that route, it opens up a fair number of chambering options. The model 10 is available in just about all the chamberings we've mentioned in this thread.

Just out of curiousity, how many different loads have you tried in your .257 Bob? What make/model of rifle is it, and have you tried doing any bedding work?

Even if you can't get it to shoot any better, 1.5" groups are perfectly acceptable for 90% of deer hunting.

My current rifle is a Kimber Model 84 Select Grade. I have not worked on any loads yet as the factory loads aren't even close to adequate.

This is 1 1/2 year old rifle, and has only been shot at the range. It has not had over 20 shots fired. Looks as I my need to send it back to Kimber.

With a 1 in 10" twist barrel you should be fine for most everything. The bedding would be my first look. I haven't purchased a box of factory ammo in so long I'm not sure whats even available but if it wont shoot a flat based bullet of 100 to 120grs., something needs improvement.

I think I'd give them a call before I bed it and ask a few questions. Is it free float or pressure on the barrel? What is acceptable accuracy in thier eyes?

A shim under the barrel near the tip of the forearm is an easy cheap troubleshooting step. The front action screw should be tight and the back snug in my experience, though I'm sure theres lots more experience on here.

If you're going to give up on it let me know! Nate

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Originally posted by tc98:
My current rifle is a Kimber Model 84 Select Grade. I have not worked on any loads yet as the factory loads aren't even close to adequate.

This is 1 1/2 year old rifle, and has only been shot at the range. It has not had over 20 shots fired. Looks as I my need to send it back to Kimber.

With only 20 rounds down the barrel, it isn't close to being broken in. You're not even half way there yet. I wouldn't worry about shot groupings until I got finished with the break in.

On an aside note, I just had my 243 rebarreled. Put a Lilja #2 contour on it at roughly 24". I shot two different factory rounds thru it, while still doing the break in. (what I had laying around) I had some Winchester SP which shot 0.67" for 3 shots and some Federal factory loads that are shooting 0.88" for 3 shots. I think this barrel will be a shooter once I get a chance to play with it.

Like you, I've only got about 20 rounds down the pipe at the moment and not even thinking about load development until I finish with the other 30 or so rounds needed to complete barrel break-in.

Good luck!

Not to open a can of worms here. But my boys and I have successfully used a 22-250 on over three dozen deer and antelope.

Recoil is mild, they both spent a bunch time at the range with their respective firearms. That practice lead to to good shot placement, which trumps most other discussions. I started using it because of all the armchair hunters that said they were to small and wouldn't work. To that I say bullocks!

But if I had to pick a dedicated small bore, probably a 6.5x55. I currently own two and have not spent a lot of trigger time with either at the range and have not hunted them at all. Looking to remedy that next month.

My second choice would be a 257 Roberts, and 243 would be last on my list.

In all the rifles I've tested, I have yet to find that one shot noticably better after so-called break-in. If they shot better, I could attribute it to tweeking the load rather than the rifle deciding to shoot better. I can't think of an exception. I have had rifles that shot poorly that were improved by other means, such as bedding, messing with the scope, etc.

Another thing - many people are of the opinion, me included, that the custom barrels such as Lilja, is basically already "broke-in" before the first round is fired, due to the bore lapping at the mfg. On all my rifles, new or used, I go directly into load development, and let the break-in occur while testing loads. Why waste time?

I'm also in agreement with the above posts re the 6.5x55. If a woman or kid can't shoot that cartridge, he or she ain't ready to hunt deer. Also, for deer, the 6.5x55 pretty much makes other cartridges in that class or smaller, just a matter of preference, not improvment.

KB

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Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I'm also in agreement with the above posts re the 6.5x55. If a woman or kid can't shoot that cartridge, he or she ain't ready to hunt deer. Also, for deer, the 6.5x55 pretty much makes other cartridges in that class or smaller, just a matter of preference, not improvment.

KB

To a certain extent, I agree with this. I'm seeing a lot of people rushing 7 or 8 year old kids into taking deer with .222's and .223's.

I'm all for getting kids involved in hunting, but I don't know if I really like the idea of a kid taking a deer with what amounts to an expert marksman's deer cartridge. I do believe that in the right hands a .22 centerfire can cleanly take deer, but I question whether or not an average 8 year old has the shooting ability or the judgement to take deer with one. Of course, if they are capable and have put in the range time, then by all means do it.

IMO, it's better to take the little kids along unarmed on deer hunts until they can handle at least a .243. I didn't shoot my first deer until I was 12, but my dad took me with him (not every time, but often enough) for 3 or 4 years before that.

Inherent accuracy is at best an ambiguous term.If you built all the rifles on the same platform- a benchrest receiver/stock/trigger in a switch barrel, for factory calibers my money would be on the 250 Savage. In wildcats as much as I love the 257DGR in pure accuracy, it would be the 25BR. The 257DGR is designed with benchrest standards but a case capacity for hunting. Pure accuracy is great, but excellent accuracy with some velocity has an edge when hunting and distances are unkown.

There are two very different questions in your post, the first of which most people are answering. As to the most accurate 25, I haven't really seen any indication that one is better than the other. The 25 is plagued by the fact that there is not a lot of focus on target grade bullets in the caliber. I have had 25-06, 257, 250 and 257 WM that all shot well. I don't see anything about any of the rounds that would set it apart. If you went to a PPC or BR based 25 with a premium bullet, they may have a slight advantage, but not worth the trouble in a hunting rifle. The 6mm in general are probably a little more accurate, largely due to bullets.

As to women and girls, I have some pretty strong beliefs, based on raising a houseful of daughters and being around several nieces. Girls are different from boys. Give a boy something like a 243 and he is in love. Girls aren't naturally attracted to the whole macho thing and really, really don't like the recoil. This is true even when they are interested in learning to shoot. I have had them shy away from guns that I thought were really mild. Your best bet, if they are young, is to start them on something that is loud enough and big enough to get their attention but not realy kick. A Bee or Hornet comes to mind. A 22 just doesn't cut it. They seem to view that as a toy, and are still intimidated when they move up.

My ideal first hunting rifle for my daughters was the 6mm/223. Very mild recoil due to light charge weights and will really kill deer. Makes a great varmint rifle too. Also, be sure the gun is small enough for a girl. If it is small enough for them to be comfortable, it is going to be pretty light, increasing the need for a mild cartridge.

If you want a falling block which they could use as a first deer rifle, try what I am getting ready to build. I ordered two FBW Model K's to build into a 222Rimmed and a 25/35. The 25/35 was considered a very accurate cartridge in its first 50 years of life, and can be loaded to performance levels near the 250 in a strong falling block. Mild loads will reliably kill deer at the ranges a beginning hunter will shoot, has a very mild recoil, and the round is perfect for a single shot action. I have seen several beautiful ones built on Martini Cadet actions.

TC, when you get back down here to God's country you need to have another look at my M700 Ti in .260. I've been hard pressed to improve on that caliber / rifle combination.
See you next week.

Yes, the smaller ones require a well placed shot---guess what? So do the larger ones. Does a youngster have a better chance of the well placed shot with something they can handle or with something that is too much for them? As SDhunter has attested the 22-250 works; same same here from .223 experience.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Yes, the smaller ones require a well placed shot---guess what? So do the larger ones.

Don't forget to mention your experience with the well placed finishing shots with the pistol, for those that are found.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Yes, the smaller ones require a well placed shot---guess what? So do the larger ones. Does a youngster have a better chance of the well placed shot with something they can handle or with something that is too much for them? As SDhunter has attested the 22-250 works; same same here from .223 experience.

From my perspective, there's a component of maturity involved as well. I get that dad is usually right behind a youngster's shoulder telling them exactly when to shoot and where to aim, but I'd still feel a bit more comfortable with an inexperienced hnter that I was taking hunting using something that can handle a quartering shot, or can reliably break a shoulder and still completely pentrate the animal.

I won't dispute that the .22 centerfires do work within their limitations (I have first hand experience that tells me they do work, having killed 15 or so deer with a .22-250) but there are a lot of limitations and there is less margin for error than there is with a bigger bullet.

Mostly, my point was that a youngster who is mature enough to handle hunting deer and all that that entails is probably going to be big enough to handle at least a .243. To be honest, I don't recall any point in my hunting/shooting career where I found a .243's recoil to be too much. If memory serves, I was 10 or so when my dad first let me shoot his.

I just bought a 243 with the intention of using the action for a donor. But after thinking about it and looking at it and reading posts here, I decided to use it as a 243 at least for a while, because it will take me a while to get around to having it rebarreled. I can always rebarrel it later and meanwhile enjoy the 243. The 243 was my first deer rifle that I bought when I was in college, so it has some nostalgic aspects to it. The 243 Winchester push feed I have now is a lot better rifle than the 788 I had in the 70's.

Things have changed a lot since I was a kid in Georgia. Back then there were none, or very few deer anywhere near where I grew up, and the same for turkeys. They had all been killed off long ago. I remember when F&G released some big Wisconsin white tails on the river bottom, and they have since spread across the region.

My first deer was taken with my Rem 870 12ga and buckshot. I found a well used trail on the river bank, and set up a climbing stand in a pine tree before daylight. The buck walked almost right under the stand and I got him in the neck with the full charge at less than 15ft. At the time, I had seen few deer and no dead deer, not even road kill.

As I recall, the friends I had who were interested in hunting started with shotguns and dove hunting, somewhere between the age of 10 and 14. 20 gauge and 16 gauge were popular. By the time deer hunting was viable, the 243 was no big deal. After shooting a shotgun all afternoon at doves, and actually learning to hit them, learning to shoot a 243 was natural. Also of course was the rabbit shooting with 22s and 410s. As teenagers we learned to hit bobwhites flushed over pointing dogs, and squirrel hunting was a favorite activity with scoped 22s. Also, many of us were farm boys, and much of this stuff came easily.

Things seem different now. When I read of others mentoring children as young as 7 or 8 to shoot deer with an experts rifle, and especially girls that young, I really question the mind set of the mentor.

KB

I started with a shotgun too. In PA, we aren't allowed to hunt until 12, but I got a single shot 20 gauge for my 11th birthday and shot it quite a lot in the following year. The summer I turned 12, I mowed some yards and saved my money up to buy a Marlin 25MN .22 magnum, which was my first rifle. I hunted squirrels with the .22 mag, and rabbits, pheasants, and grouse with the 20 ga.

By the time my first deer season rolled around, the recoil of my dad's .243 didn't bother me a bit. I carried my 20 ga loaded with slugs, but ended up using dad's .243 though, because the first buck we saw was around 100 yards away, which he judged to be a bit too far for me to shoot with my shotgun.

I attribute this shift in attitudes to the decline in the number of people who generally identify themselves as "hunters," and the advent of specialists. Growing up, my dad and I hunted groundhogs in the summer, then squirrels and grouse early in the fall, then rabbits later, then deer season rolled around, then we went back to small game after that. Now, most people hunt archery in the fall, then firearms, then maybe muzzleloader or back to archery in the late season, but they always hunt deer. The emphasis on deer hunting leads them to push a youngster right into hunting deer, rather than starting them on small game like most of us did.

Kabluey invited me to tell of the finishing shot with the pistol on those found. 100% of the .223 shot deer have been found, so far 100% within under 20 yards. One that was .222 shot ran about 100 feet. He tries to create an issue when there is none. Unlike a lot of folks that wait several minutes before approaching, we go immediately on the shot and if any sign of life, give a finishing shot with a pistol. This is done when using larger cals as well, and unlike I would have thought, seems more of the larger cal shot animals require a finishing shot. Kabluey cant give any reports except on his keyboard what happens, he has NO experience except shooting them end to end with his magnum and spreading the green stuff all over his supper (he thinks that is guacamole and he likes it). You can tell by his taglines he eats lots of it.

kjjm--You are correct in your assessment of how kids hunt atleast with me. They are told when to shoot and when not to. If it is not a good presentation--the shot is not taken.

I used a 243 several years ago for mulies. After shooting 3 of them and none of them dropped where they were shot, that was my LEAST favorite deer round of all that I have ever used.

I have used a 257 AI for the last several years and every deer Ive shot dropped in its tracks.

Maybe it was just bad luck with the 243.. ?? Cant say for sure, at any rate that has been my experience.

I love the 257. You can shoot it all day long at the range and yet it shoots flat enough and has enough power to do anything a 300 mag will in raguards to Deer. I also agree that accuracy depends on the rifle. But it has been opined that the AI version is more "inherintly" accurate than the vanilla version. I dont think I believe that really. The standard 257 is a fabulous round, and IMO it is far more suitable for big bucks than a 243..

Thats just my .02c.

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Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Don't think I could handle any more accurate a rifle.

in the field, my 257 is far more accurate than I am..

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Originally posted by carpetman1:
kjjm--You are correct in your assessment of how kids hunt atleast with me. They are told when to shoot and when not to. If it is not a good presentation--the shot is not taken.

I think it's kinda interesting to compare the means I was taught about hunting and safety and such, with what others describe.

Of course it was my father who introduced me to hunting, and shooting. We shot targets often at first with an old German 22 that he brought home from the war. Later we began actually hunting. That's when he introduced me to beagles and rabbit hunting, for which we never used a rifle - always a shotgun, for safety reasons. At that time we could hunt basically any property all around the farm, and the other farmers didn't mind. Naturally, with beagles, and other people in the vacinity, it is important to hold the shot until it's safe. One basic rule was to keep up with where everyone is and don't shoot in their direction or toward a dog. It was a great learning experience. There were lots of rabbits, so we had lots of action. Letting one rabbit pass was no big deal because pretty soon another one would come along. So gun handling and safety skills were drilled in not only by observations and instruction but plenty of practice.

My father never had enough time to take us hunting as often as we wanted. So my uncle Osborne, who was retired and the best dove shot I ever saw taught us. He had a pack of beagles that he hauled around in an old chevy car, not the trunk but inside the car, which smelled just aweful.

Part of the reason dove hunting was popular is because Osborne would put kids on the other end of the field, 80-120 yds apart, to keep the doves from landing there, so he could get more shots from his end of the field, while watching us at the same time. Thus in the excitment of the moment, the opportunity to shoot each other was greatly deminished, while improper behavior was usually apparant, and never went unmentioned, or unscolded. Also, we were given one box of shells, which was all for the day, and the challange was to limit out, which was 12 birds. Osborne could do it with 12 shells regularly, but you can imagine the challange it was for kids. Having a limited supply of shells was a really good idea, in hindsight, but I didn't think so at the time. Now of course I realize that for those times a whole box of shells was quite generous.

As I said, by the time I got the opportunity to deer hunt, all the basics were already drilled in. All I had to do was take it to the next level. The methods of my mentors was not really over-the-shoulder, except perhaps initially, at the range. IMO, that's way too iffy and tedious in a real deer hunting situation. IMO, by that time the kids judgment and skill should already be developed far enough to require little supervision, but enthusiasm guidance and encouragment instead.

By the same reasoning, the need for a marginal cartridge, just to minimize the recoil, is also not relevant. It's a cart before the horse thing. Bring the child up to what it takes to handle an adequate rifle for the task, rather than bring the rifle down to match the inadequacies of the child's skill level.

KB

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Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
I used a 243 several years ago for mulies. After shooting 3 of them and none of them dropped where they were shot, that was my LEAST favorite deer round of all that I have ever used....

Maybe it was just bad luck with the 243.. ?? Cant say for sure, at any rate that has been my experience.....

Just bad luck. I've shot 6 deer with a .243 and had a grand total of one of them run out of sight at the shot.

The thing I don't really like about the .243 is that I only get an exit wound about half of the time. That applies even more with a .22 centerfire; I didn't get a single exit wound on any of the 15 deer I killed with my .22-250. Usually it's not a problem, but a few of them took me an hour or more to find because they ran off into the thick stuff and didn't leave a drop of blood along the way.

Kjjm--Of deer I shot or witnessed being shot, I've only had two that did not have complete pass through. These were about if not the last two. Both were shot with .223 and the bullet was found under skin in the off side. The recovered bullet had the perfect mushroom and I think they weighed 40 grains (55 grain bullet). Both deer dropped on the spot. Wstrnhntr--I would say bad luck. I've had very favorable luck with .243 and 100 grain bullets. The last one I shot was a different deal. He didn't run nor fall--seems they usually do one or the other. He just slowly walked 30 or so feet and stopped. Swayed a little and after minute or so dropped dead. How??? Never know, the shot took out liver and heart both.