I'm considering building another AR platform rifle. I've got the standard .223/5.56 and want one with a little more "snort" for hunting hogs and whitetail deer.

Yes, I know I can kill deer and pigs with my .223 and have done so, but as I said before, I'm looking at something a little bigger, the Sharps .25-45. It uses the same magazines and bolt carrier group as the standard .223, just a different barrel. From an 18 inch barrel, it's supposed to push an 87 grain spire point bullet to almost 3,000 feet per second. Which sound good to me for whitetail deer in Tennessee.

Does anyone have any experience with this round?

I have no experience with 25-45, I admit that.
Suggest you look into a 257 Bartz, very close to 250 Savage in an AR platform.

http://bartzman.com/

Doug

The 257 Bartz sounds like a good cartridge. However, that round and the 6.5 Grendel upon which it is based both require changing bolts and magazines. Once you start doing that your choices in cartridge greatly increase, including chamberings such as:

.243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
.25 Winchester Super Short Magnum
.25×6.8
.257 Bobcat
.264 LBC
.270 AR
.277 Wolverine (6.8×39mm)
.30 Remington AR
.30×6.8

But if you want to keep the same bolt and use the same magazines then you have to use a cartridge based on the 5.56mm/.223 case.

A few decades ago there was a lot of interest in using the AR15 platform for hunting. It seemed like a novel idea back then and wildcats like 6mm-.223, .25-.223, 6.5mm-.233, .270-.223, and 7mm-.223 appeared on the scene, some with very interesting names. But in the late 1980s AR15s started to get bad press as assault weapons. Then the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) ended new manufacture of ARs for the civilian market and there were no big commercial break-throughs for any of the wildcats it could shoot.

When the AWB expired in 2004 interest in ARs for hunting deer and other game was renewed. To help things along, new development in optics, handguards, flat-top recievers, and rail systems made the AR more suitable for sporting use. Suddenly there was a burst of uppers and ARs chambered in all sorts calibers from .17 to .50. The 6mm-.223/6x45 was an exception because it had a history going back to the early 1970s and it hung on the whole time.

Today, the 6mm-.223 has been beat out by larger calibers. Most of those are formed on larger cases than .223. But shooting larger calibers from larger cases in the AR15 comes at a price. For some cartridges that price is the requirement to use different magazines and bolts but for other cartridges it can also mean changing buffers and springs, opening ejection ports, and accepting a lower service life for some critical parts. Nevertheless, many believe the pluses outweigh the minuses and thousands of ARs have been built and sold in all sorts of calibers. But, the 6mm-.223 just hasn't made it as a notable commercial offering.

Now, to the .25-45. Today, the .25-45 is one of only two calibers larger than .223 I can think of for which ammunition is readily available and which can be used in standard AR15s without altering magazines, without changing bolts, without changing anything but the barrel. The other is the .300 Blackout, sort of a modern, high pressure .30 Carbine. Many people realized in the 1980s and 1990s that .25 caliber is about the biggest you can go using a standard .223 case in the AR15 without bullets severely reducing powder capacity. The .25-45 was really a no-brainier and I am surprised it took so long for a .25-.223 to come back on the scene. But come back it has and it is making a good showing of itself.

Brass for forming the .25-45 is ubiquitous and will be for the rest of all of our lifetimes. It must be one of the easiest cartridges to form brass for and to reload. All the major bullet manufacturers offer bullets suitable for use in the .25-45.

Most people building ARs in calibers other than .223/5.56 are building a dedicated big game rifle but the .25-45 can perform equally well as both varmint and deer cartridge. Factory ammunition is available loaded with 70gr Sierra BlitzKing, 87gr Speer Hot-Cor, and 100 grain Dead Tough bullets. If you are looking for a cartridge for the AR15 that only requires a barrel change to build, is equally effectively for use on varmints and deer sized game, and is easy to reload then the .25-45 fits the bill.

Here is little video that reveals the varmint side of this caliber.

While it is true you can use the same bolt, it is highly recommended that you do not use the same bolt for more than one gun. Reason being that the bolt and barrel extension wear together evenly. Introduce a new barrel extension into the mix and you are now running the risk of not having the two parts lock up correctly and having issues with cycling.

At the very least you should buy a new bolt. You could still use the same carrier but honestly it would be easier to just buy a new bolt and carrier group and keep them with their perspective uppers.

As to the caliber in question I have looked into it as well and have been on the fence if I want to build a new AR or not.

Good point, Palladin. By "the same bolt" I meant a standard AR15/M16 .223/5.56 bolt and it would have been better if I made that clear.

Don't forget the 30 HRT, 357 HRT (30 and 357 Herrett using the 6.8 case), the 358 MGP (6.8 case opened up to 35) and the 270 AR (shortened 6.5x47 Lapua case opened up to 270). Lots of choices for alternative AR hunting cartridges.

I'm planning on building an entire new upper for this build, so the bolt carrier issue really isn't.

I'm looking for either an entire .223/5.56 upper (including BCG)or a stripped upper and just building the darned thing myself. So if anyone out there has a donor upper, let me know because being on a disability income, money is a SEVERE issue.

But it sounds like I've got the start of a great little Tennessee deer rifle. Thanks for the assist!

If money is tight, buy an SKS.

George

If you want to stay with the AR and want bigger go with a .450 SOCOM. Basically .45-70 ballistics in a 10 shot AR. Uses standard magazines as well.

The 6.8 SPC is a good option in and of itself- plus add'l cartridges based on that case offer some decent choices as well.

The 6 Hagar, 240 Tomahawk, 220 Thunderbolt and a bunch of others offer a step up in performance over the 556 based case, and do not run into reduced bolt material and breeching issues as the Grendel case family does.

Never heard of the 25/45.

quote:

Originally posted by drhall762:
If you want to stay with the AR and want bigger go with a .450 SOCOM. Basically .45-70 ballistics in a 10 shot AR. Uses standard magazines as well.

The problem I have is that in addition to already owning a .45/70, I have really crappy health. Bad shoulders mean I had to sell my vertical bow and go to a crossbow, and I just can't handle heavy recoil well any longer. Hence looking to build an AR platform rifle. Then I have had six heart attacks and a stroke, so I'd just as soon take it easy on my old decrepit body.....

I was originally thinking 6.5 Grendal, 6.8 SPC or maybe even .223 Wyld. I didn't want to get too far off the beaten path as far as the availability of brass, but I wanted sufficient energy to dump deer out to 200/250 yards.

I think I've got that with the .25/45 Sharps build.

Thanks everyone.

I know this is a silly question, but what the Sam Hill does the name Sharps have to do with a cartridge for an AR-15?

It's the decades old 25-223 isn't it?

Oh well...

About the same thing that the name Remington has to do with the .30 Remington AR. Welcome to the 21st century.

Sharps standardized the cartridge and got it recognized by SAAMI. It's what Federal did with the .338-08, calling it the .338 Federal, and Remington did with the .22 Varminter that they standardized as the .22-350 Remington. Others have done the same with many other cartridges.