The age old question, huh?

Time for a rebarrel on my old coyote gun, and I want to step up in caliber to give it more versatility. Rifle is a 40 XBKS in .220 Swift at the moment. Short action, 27.5" barrel.

It used to be pretty much a calling rifle and small critter getter. Now I have a nice light .223 that takes over alot of that smaller work. What I need is a heavy varmint setup for when the range is long and the wind is blowing. I am also thinking it is going to pull alot of doe culling duty over the next few years as well in open fields.

I have thought of a fast twist 6mm, but then you kinda get locked into the heavier bullets. If I go with the .257 Bob then I can shoot whatever weight I need without getting tricky on the twist. I think the Bob may be better in the short action than the 6mm as well. Acoording to the books the AI is alot faster than the Bob, but I don't think that is reality. I think the manual data for the Bob is light, where the AI data is pretty hot. Is there really enough difference between the two to mess with?

I think you guys can see which way I am leaning, go ahead and talk me into it.

The 6mm Rem and the 257 Roberts are "intermediate" length and can have some issues in a short action. Let me suggest the 250/300 AI. It will give you Roberts performance and is a true short action cartridge. I have two, one of which is a bolt action. With a 1in10 24" barrel I'm getting 3198fps with RL15 and 100gr Bal Tips.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

Sorry! That's 250/3000 AI!

The 250-3000 for a SHORT ACTION and light rifle is spot on! Wither you need the extra 50yds. the AI configuration MIGHT give you is a decision you will have to make based on your ability and field circumstances.
A bolt action 250-3000 with a somewhat long throat and fast enough twist to handle heavier bullets is in a different category than that cartridge loaded for the Mod 99.
Mine will safely push a 120 grain bullet at 2790 fps. It may do better but I've not pushed it. roger

Hmmm, time to go do some research. I'll be back.

The 250-3000 AI looks very interesting, and Mike Bryant has a reamer for it. He is the one I hope to get to rebarrel/true the action for me. Redding makes dies for it too. This may be a serious contender here.

For a short action Remington I tend to agree with the .250-3000, regular or improved. The .257 Roberts is just a tad too long for that action to take advantage of the longer bullets. I have a .257 AI on a Remington 721 and it works just fine but I can't fit a cartridge with the120gr bullet in a 722 magazine.

Jerry Liles

Okay, so 250-3000 Ackley or 257 Roberts, either one, what twist? I don't have to go up to the 120, but I would like the option of shooting the 110-115 if I wanted to. 1-10 handle it all? What about barrel length? keeping it down to a 24" would be nice too, it will be a heavy barrel.

I would go with the 24 inch barrel and the 1 in 10 twist will do you proud.
I have both a 250/3000 AI and a 275RobAI.
If you just load to the factory pressures you will not be happy,but when loaded like they were intended to be they will do some long shooting.
I use the 75 grain V-Max for coyotes and other varmints saving the 100 and up for deer and pigs.If you would like to look at my load data for ideas let me know.

I got your data plainsman, thanks for sending that. Data for the 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, and 257 Roberts Ackley are pretty easy to come by, but the 250 Savage Ackley is not as easy. Looks to me like the improved Savage is just pretty comparable to the Roberts, improved or not.

I think the improved Savage is just what I am looking for. Thanks everyone for helping me find the cartridge I was looking for, I appreciate it very much! Started the process of e-mails to my gunsmith last night.

Okay, who makes dies for the 250/300 Ackley? Where did you guys get yours?

CH4D can supply you with dies.

I got mine from Redding.

Looks like both Redding and RCBS make dies, Sinclair sells the Redding dies and in stock. Who built your rifles plainsman? Sounds like you are pretty happy with them, what action are they on?

Any feeding issues with the 250 Ackley in a 700 due to sharp shoulders?

This may be a stupid? .And I don't mean to muddle up your thread. But why hasn't anyone ever taken to the 25 308 . Or am I missing something.

Not stupid at all. I was (and could still be) seriously considering the 25 Souper. It would be an excellent choice as well. Main thing is the gunsmith I want to do the job has a 250 Ackley reamer but does not have a 25 Souper reamer. IDK, maybe he could chamber ream with a 243 and then reck ream with something else, but I am not educated on that enough to know. I think it would be a great cartridge.

Add another idea in the mix..........why not a standard 260 Remington with 8 twist? Bullet selection lets you use down to 95 grain VMAXS at 3400fps+ all the way up to 140AMaxs or 142 Sierras at 2800fps or so with a lot of stuff in between. Fits in a short action and is known for its accuracy and can get to 1000 yards with accuracy. Easy to load for and fun to shoot. GHD

quote:

Add another idea in the mix..........why not a standard 260 Remington with 8 twist? Bullet selection lets you use down to 95 grain VMAXS at 3400fps+ all the way up to 140AMaxs or 142 Sierras at 2800fps or so with a lot of stuff in between. Fits in a short action and is known for its accuracy and can get to 1000 yards with accuracy. Easy to load for and fun to shoot. GHD

Interesting idea. Bullet selection is great. .264 is only a fraction up from .257. Or to make things really complicated a 6.5x47 Lapua or a 6.5 Creedmoor......

LWD

The .260 would make sense. Especially since I have dies for it from the one that I used to own. But, I'm trying to fill a gap between a .223 and two 7x57's. One 7x57 is set up lighter bullet flatter, the other heavy bullet close. So really, for me the .260 is alot of duplication there. The original plan was a 6mm, but then I decided I would rather have just a touch more big bullet capability that that. I want something that is really at home in the middle, not something that can be forced up or down if that makes sense. Primarily this will be a heavy varmint rifle for 'yotes, and proably run an 85 NBT most of the time. I was kinda rambling there, but maybe that helps looking into what I am really wanting it to do.

For a dedicated yote gun in a short action I would Go with either the 243 Win or 250-3000.

I have a 257 Rob AI and it is fantastic for deer and varminting, it matches the factory 25-06 loads. But for strictly yotes I think a 243 would be great..

JTP: Is that 40X a single shot or does it have a magazine? If it's a single shot, then the issue of the action length is irrelavent. You could use an '06-length case in it as a single shot if you wished.

As to caliber, there are a lot more good varminting bullets in 6mm than in .257". Not that you can't find a good .257 bullet, just that you have a lot more selection in the 6mm diameter. I have a couple of heavy varminters, one in .243 and one in .244. A friend owns one on a Rem 700 short action with magazine in 6mm AI and has no problem with having sufficient magazine length. I see no advantage of the .257 bore over the 6mm for your purposes.

My 40 X is a repeater and will be used as such so magazine length does affect OAL. I imagine field time will be spent pretty much half in half with 'yotes and deer.

Man, I am contradicting myself, huh? First I say primarily coyotes, then I say half and half with deer. Really, it probably needs to be true dual purpose that is my goal. Equally at home doing either.

I'd suggest a .243 or a .260. Both beat the 250-3000 and their are no availability problems. A fast twist .243 will do it all and quality bullets are available.

Dude, get the 257 Roberts. Contrary to the myths, it's a SHORT ACTION! You may get 50 FPS more by getting one with a longer action and "seating the bullets" out. You will have no problems seating any 257 bullets in a short action Roberts.

The .257 Roberts can fit into a short Rem 700/40XB magazine, and with "varmint weight" bullets you will have no problem. If you want to use a longer bullet for deer (for example, a 110 Nosler Accubond), then you will have to seat it deeper than you might otherwise prefer.

However, while I'm no professional gunsmith, I am given to understand that lengthening the Rem 700 magazine box by .15-.20" or so is no big trick (Remington did so itself to accomodate the SAUM series). Since your rifle will be going "under the knife" anyway, why not extend the magazine while it is still under the aneasthesia?

Okay, I think I finally have this figured the way I really want it. 25 Souper (25-08), and here is why.

1. I can form brass easy from several cartidges that have high quality brass available (.260, 7-08, and .308). All I want is just necked straight down, no body taper or shoulder angles changed. Finding brass to neck down should never be a problem.

2. This allows simple die forming with no fireforming to a different body configuration, and having to go through that step. Just neck down and shoot.

3. Don't have to buy dies. I have a 260 seater that should work just fine (only .007 bullet difference). I have the full length seater sizer for it too, which if I took the expander out of it could be used as a bump die or to help form down larger cases. Dad has a FL 260 bushing die that will be mine as soon as he sells his 260 Encore barrel. Just change bushings in it from 6.5 down to 25, and I have it. No cash outlay for dies is a big plus.

4. True short action with no bullet seating issues, real or percieved.

5. Performance right where I want it.

Why not just get a .260 and be done with it? Personally, I like the bullet selection better and feel the 6.5's have an edge over the .25's. I used to be a huge Roberts fan until I built my first 6.5x55. I still like my Roberts, love it really, but my hand always seems to reach for the 6.5 instead.

If I HAD to have a short action, I'd pick a .260 without a second thought.

JTP,

Build what is going to make you happy. The 25 Souper sounds great and you'll have that "cool" wildcat factor. No deer in the world will know the difference between a 110-120 grain 25 bullet, a 140 grain 6.5/7mm bullet.

The 260 is little more versatile as the game gets bigger. Like Z1r, I have a Roberts and a Swede. Love them both but they are much different platforms. The Roberts is a Kimber Select and the Swede is a CZ Mannlicher. I like the nostalgia of both and generally shoot 115 NBTs/120 Interlocks in the Roberts and heavy 155 Lapua Megas in the Swede.

I feel real good about this cartridge. It seems to be the perfect blend of all the things I want for this rifle.

Now I have to find a good gunsmith to do it. The guy I was thinking of useing doesn't have a reamer for it, so now I am looking. I want the action trued and someone who is good at heavy varmint rifles like this. Any ideas for ones to check in to?

jim you got the 7x57.
and i know it's got a lot of bbl life left.
it goes from 100 grs up through 175.
i use my ackley with 100 gr bullets at a titch over 3k for the small things like yotes and rock chucks, and 139-154's at 2850 for deer and elk.
thats about as versatile as you can get.
unless you get on a prairie dog town you aren't gonna be under or over gunned.
don't mess with what you got get a faster twisted swift bbl and use the heavier bullets to fill in from the 223 up through the x57.

After fighting all this die/reamer/OAL thing for the past two weeks and trying to find the "perfect" solution, I may have come full circle. I think at this point I am just going to chamber for the .260, have the rifle set up for the 123 Scenar and be done. It should still shoot heavier and lighter bullets just fine. It just felt like I was trying to "force" a solution when the one that made sense was right in front of me.

I got to thinking about barrel life and the lack of load data for the other rounds and decided I could halfway burn out a barrel trying to figure it all out. There is so much long range data out there for the 260, proven recipes. A fella should be able to take a few of the best as a guideline, work up to them in his rifle, and get a load worked out pretty quick.

260 will be better on deer, and a coyote is dead either way.

Good choice. The 125 partition would be a good choice for the bigger stuff. Still get high velocity with a .450 BC.

The .260 should be great for the stated purpose. There are a lot of excellent long-range bullets available for 6.5mm.

After years of shooting I have come to the conclusion that any improved version of a standard caliber is a sales job to get ones money..Never met a coyote that knew the difference in a 257 Roberts or a 257 AI..

The beauty of a standard 257 is the lack of recoil and it still has an abundance of killing power and the difference in trajectory is less than 2 inches at any give long range.

Same for the 250-3000 it cannot be improved it can only be punched out to take a tad more powder..and if one thinks that you get more loadings with an Imp. gun then your sadly mistaken, long givity in brass has to do more with the size of the chamber and how its cut and how much the brass is over worked, besides that the hotter loads of the IMP chamber effect the life of brass.

I've always liked the Rob plus I have a ton of 7x57 brass on hand.