For those interested, this site should answer most any of your WSSM questions (http://wssmzone.com/main/default.aspx?c=home&n=main). With over 200 loads and many more to come, it's all good. There is even a users forum.

I started up the web site mainly because most of the information about the WSSMs are spread out all over everywhere. Plus, I feel that there should be place dedicated to this family of cartridge.

Besides this forum, I also frequent the ShortMags.Org forum. Anyway, per the moderator's wishes I posted a similar topic to this one on that forum. Since that post my membership has been revoked. After e-mailing the site asking my my username and password will not work I received the following e-mail:

Your forum membership was terminated when you posted that you had started a
site for the super short magnums.

"If you have been paying attention, you must realize there is no good will

left from ShortMags.Org for those cartridges. The sooner they die off the
better."

Just out of curiosity, what are your guys' opinions?

I believe you are providing a valuable service and find it hard to believe that you are being treated the way that you are for offering it.

The WSSMs are not popular, I know. But they offer some real advantages for single shot pistols, where the fewer rounds in the magazine and feeding problems are not an issue. Bullets can be seated out for maximum ballistics and the short cartridge length translates into longer barrel lengths in very short barrels - a definate advantage for handguns.

I would hope that you would also eventually include a 6.5 WSSM in addition to the factory rounds; it and a 7 MM would be the best of the lot in my view, and just about right for big game hunting with a handgun.

Thanks for what you are doing, and don't let the naysayers discourage you. I hope that the WSMs and WSSMs don't go away completely because they have a contribution to make. Which is superior performance to 308 based cartridges in short, light short action rifles and handguns. So what if they don't better the magnums and 3006 based cartridges in all cases. Duplicating 2506, 6.5 x 284 and 284 ballistics in a shorter case is nothing to sneeze at in my view...Rusty.

FA: your experience on Shortmags.org is not surprising, based on what the moderator has done in the past...too bad..the site could be much more useful IMO if he'd behave. As to the WSSM's, I really like my 25WSSM FWT. Light, handy, reasonably accurate....to me it's a modernized 257 Roberts. I hope they succeed and hope the same for your new forum. Jim

I am finding out as much. Thank you for your support.

The shortmags.org owner is a few screws short of a dozen. The sooner that site withers and goes away, the better.

I have a custom barreled 223WSSM I use for long range varminting with heavy for caliber bullets. It spanks my PPC for that purpose. Looking forward to seeing your site grow and flourish. JMO, Dutch.

When I talk/post about the WSSMs I feel like I should adopt Dartmouth College's moto; "vox clamantis in deserto", a voice crying out in the wilderness.

Like a lot of things, people repeat what they have heard/read about the WSSMs and most of that talk is just myth with a negative cant. I know that some people claim to have had issues with the 223 WSSM when it 1st came out, but I have yet to see more than a single WSSM carried in the field or at the range by anybody except me. Winchester/USRA appears to be pushing the economy grade 70 Super Shadows at Wal-Mart, as our locate WM has that rifle in 223 and 243 WSSM packaged with a low-grade 3-9x scope in Weaver style rings for $399. The best WSSM deal that I have seen is with CDNN out of Abilene, TX. They recently had a variety of Winchester 70s in 223 and 243 WSSM advertised at below wholesale prices. That is where I bought 2 of my 70 stainless Ultimate Shadows in 243 WSSM.

I have bought 8 Winchester 70s, 4 in 243 WSSM and 4 in 25 WSSM. I have a 70 Super Shadow in 25 WSSM that is 1 of the most accurate out-of-the-box rifles that I have ever owned. Once I relieved the barrel channel a little and adjusted the trigger there was no challenge to shoot sub-MOA groups at 100 yards using a variety of factory ammo. Since I live in a place that is humid in the summer, I like stainless firearms and bought a 70 stainless Ultimate Shadow in 25 WSSM to keep in my truck. That rifle, mounted with a Leupold 6x36 in Warne mounts, is also a tack driver. I currently have a 70 Super Shadow action being rebarreled (from 243 WSSM) with a high grade Shilen varmint weight barrel, also in 25 WSSM, that I plan to try this Spring when the pdog shooting gets started up on the Pine Ridge and Rosebud Reservations in SD. I can't help but think that the 75 grain VMax or 75 grain Sierra HP will be death to pdogs out to 500+/- yards. I am just starting to shoot a Winchester 70 stainless Ultimate Shadow in 243 WSSM, but have been very pleased with the performance of the 95 grain SBT factory ammo. This rifle is mounted with an old Lyman 8x in Warne mounts. The other 4 rifles are NIB Winchester 70 stainless Ultimate Shadows that I am planning to keep for my 2 kids to use when they get older.

I think that if more people tried the WSSMs, they would like them, kinda like the 260 Remington. I hope that Winchester/USRA will continue to push the sales of the WSSMs through volume outlets (WM) and that might help to build enough mass of users to keep the WSSMs moving forward.

Jeff

It is great to hear a true success story. I love my 25 WSSM. Currently, it is getting a new laminate stock, and when it gets finished I will post it in my gallery.

I am with you, wholeheartedly, when you say that people have given them needed banter based on secondhand experience at best. I feel that the advantages are there, it might just take a little while for the rest of the shooting public to warm up to change.

Thanks for posting the link to your site, I bookmarked it. I agree with you, good WSSM info is hard to find. A short action Savage shooter like me likes as many chambering options as possible and the 25WSSM and 6.5WSSM are great cases to have around. I'm thinking a 22" barrel 25WSSM with 85 gr GS-Custom copper bullets will top 3500 fps easily and should scramble deer chest cavities with very little meat loss.

I had a post deleted over there Tuesday and I've been a member there since the begining. In a thread that asked about peoples opinions of the available rifles in 7WSM I reminded them about Savage, pointed out some accuracy features they have and posted a link to the Savage website. Other than mentioning that some 1000 yd shooters use the 7WSM that's it, but the mod cut it. I thought THAT was strange, but your case, how they won't even allow discusion of the WSSMs yet they expanded thier forum to include the standard cartridges is even stranger, really odd behavior.

I am looking at the 6.5 and 7mm versions of the WSSMs for conversion in a Switch barrel Savage for target shooting....

I don't see anything that the 223 WSSM and the 243 WSSM give that we don't already have...

But for some reason, that case in 6.5 and 7mm interest me... who knows, maybe in 30 caliber it would be fun to play with also...

I see it as a target shooting and varmint shooting case....

seafire

In the same reply e-mail he told me that his form was not anything remotely about freedom of speech even though he does quote the Bill of Rights in his FAQ about why the WSSMs are not included. I pretty much told him that he was hypocritical and I find it revolting. That is one reason why I love this forum; so long as you are not personally attacking people your opinion still counts. Mine is run the same way and always will be.

I think the WSSM cases to have potential in the wildcatter arena, but wouldn't it be difficult to seat the heavier bullets far enough in the case, or are you considering using the < 130 gr. bullets?

quote:

But for some reason, that case in 6.5 and 7mm interest me...

seafire

I am the same way. I like my 223WSSM for a low recoil, long range varminter. There are other cartridges that can fill that role, but the WSSM does it very ably, as well. However, the 6.5 WSSM fascinates me.

For some time, I have felt that the WSSM case is here to stay because of it's use in the target games in 6.5 cal. The long range guys are reporting good success.

Sort of like the 284 case. The parent is on life support, but long live the wild cat child 6.5/284. JMO, Dutch.

quote:

Originally posted by FlyingAce:I think the WSSM cases to have potential in the wildcatter arena, but wouldn't it be difficult to seat the heavier bullets far enough in the case, or are you considering using the < 130 gr. bullets?

The 1000 yd guys are getting close to 3000 fps with the 140 class bullets in the 6.5WSSM and 6.5WSSM Imp. I believe Boyd Heaton set a record, and his was based on the shallower shouldered 243 or 223 case. Yes they seat these bullets long just like they do with the 6.5/284 case.

3,000 FPS from the WSSM case and a 140 grain bullet? I'd like to see what pressures that combination makes.

Although I like the 6.5 bore, I currently have 23 of them, I can't see what advantage a 6.5 WSSM would have over the 25 WSSM for shooting varmints and deer/antelope. I have a few hundred .257 bore Barnes X in 75 and 85 grain bullets around to feed my 25-284s, but hadn't through about the 85 grain GS-Custom. Do you have a link to their site?

I only bought the 243 WSSMs because the price at CDNN, $410, was so low and I can't resist a deal. I really think that the 25 WSSM is where I'm going to spend most of my time, but the 95 grain SBTs in the 243 WSSM is looking very promising.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by FlyingAce:
Besides this forum, I also frequent the ShortMags.Org forum. Anyway, per the moderator's wishes I posted a similar topic to this one on that forum. Since that post my membership has been revoked.

...


Just out of curiosity, what are your guys' opinions?

I was active on that forum for a while until I ran afoul of the same attitude. While I wasn't banned, I saw some others that were and bailed out early. It is/was ridiculous, and good riddance!

As for the WSSM's and a site dedicated to them, well they are sorta neat and all. I like seeing new things, 'nothing new under the sun since the 30-06' guys rub me wrong, and I say go for it. You seem to understand that it is and will be a niche cartridge, if it survives, but if it's fun, what else matters!

We're long past the time when there will be rapid, major advances in brass cased cartridge design, so I'm just glad someone is trying new stuff. Good luck with your site and your work with the WSSM's!

The GS Custom-HVs are similar to the Barnes TSX but softer and more aerodynamic. Great reading about how they work on their site.
Load Data http://gsgroup.co.za/hvloads.html
Bullet specs http://www.gsgroup.co.za/hvtech.html

The 1000 yd 6.5WSSM shooters load those long bullets with only the boatail below the base of the neck. They use 28-30 barrels and load close to the 65K PSI limit. Apparently the 243WSSM and the 25WSSM necked up have enough capacity for the ideal velocity range of 2950-3000 without loading hot, but the improved versions give a little cushion.

Jim Mace: been trying to register/post on your new forum without success. Keep getting the following error message:
Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a005e'

Invalid use of Null: 'cLng'

/forum/inc_func_common.asp, line 881

Thanks for the heads up. The error has now been fixed. Unfortunately, you'll have to reregister. Sorry for any inconvenience.