I know this will generate many answers, but a short time on this forum has show me that many of you know what you are talking about compared to many other forums out there (you know which ones I mean).
I am set that my next rifle will be a 308 bore (300/30, what ever you wish to choose). I am trying to decide which is the most accurate 1000 yard cartridge. Right now I am stuck between the 300 wsm and the 7.82 Patriot. I would be grateful to hear your opinions. A long action is not out of the question.
I should also say, I am new to these forums, I feel grateful for any opinions on this forum, and of course... Hello.

PS. Saeed makes me want to buy a 9.3, you bastard, hehehe. Actually you aren't the bad one, it's the woman I live with, as most of you know.

[This message has been edited by DanD (edited 12-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DanD (edited 12-08-2001).]

A slightly modified Patriot (a little sharper shoulder) has had some sucess with 1000-yard shooting in the Phoenix area/ Dick Davis, the manager at Lazzeroni is the one doing the shooting. Being able to use a single-shot action where you aren't concerned about feeding allows you to seat the bullet out...the secret of course is a very fast twist barrel and very long bullets.

You might also consider than Patriot brass is much stronger than the WSM brass.

Dan. The world IS small. I was just sitting here calculating the performance of a 7.82 Patriotish cartridge for a switch barrel on my heavy 338 LapuaMag BR rifle. I say patriotish because I have some doubts about the real Patriot brass and reamer specs. My riflesmith made a 7.21 Tomahawk last year and used cases for head spacing. That stuff was NOT BR quality, though expensive enough. The head, e.g., of the Lazz case is .6mm or .024" thinner than the LapuaMag and the runout of Lapua brass is 1/10 of the Lazz. Remember that the LapuaMag case is the strongest on the market and of topnotch BR quality. Furthermore the standard Lazz reamer made a, for BR use, very sloppy chamber. So I will, no doubt, base the creation on the LapuaMag case. I�d like to be wrong, but I doubt Win brass will ever come even close to BR quality. At 1000yds there is NO mercy if success shall be an option.

One problem with real cases is that you need a real action. The Lapua Mag has the same head size as the 416 Rigby (it�s parent case), and the Lazzeroni is only 0.01" smaller (the Tomahawk case I have). A 3/4" dia bolt would be preferable, but I know that a battalion of shooters with experience of small actions will tell you about how good Win70s and Rem700 etc are.

The case volume of the Patriot is almost equal to a 2.5" magnum case, so the performance should, in theory, equate that of a 30/338 that is a good one for 1000yds. If there is anything in the short-fat case concept it should, in theory, be present in a Patriotish case.

PS. I made a 9,3x62 for my dad last month. Last week he downed two moose within 10 sec, one shot each (the last two licenses, they wanted to get ower with it for this year), both fell within 5m. Hehhehhe! As for the women, we do need brakes, sad but true.

Hello and take care. AKI

[This message has been edited by AKI (edited 12-11-2001).]

AKI...remember that Lazzeroni is making a hunting rifle and not a BR rifle so there must be some "slop" compared to BR chamber but even with that my 9.53 HellCat will shoot three 300gr Nosler Partitions into 3/4" at 100 yards routinely (2550fps) and when I don't have the shakes and the moon is just right they are even smaller. My Patriot will do even better and sometimes a lot better used Nosler Partions that have the Arizona Arms UltraLube coating...the HellCat weighs 8 1/2Lb with scope and the Patriot 7 1/2 with scope.

Yes Bill, I know. But Dan said "trying to decide which is the most accurate 1000 yard cartridge", so I tried to adress some of the problems I am pondering myself.

My chamber will be cut with the Tomahawk reamer. The Lapua Mag case is apparently slightly wider than Lazzeroni, but the "sloppy" reamer will take care of most of it. It will be necked and throated separately for the Lapua Scenar 185gr. Twist about 1:11".

The case volume will be suitable for the N160-N560-N165 powders which work well for long range work.

You see, I could almost hear the bang when Vihtavuori factory exploded and killed over 50 in the mid 70�s. This close to VV and Lapua using their stuff, bullets, cases, powder is rather intelligent. It�s much cheaper than american stuff, no problems with quality, accuracy or availability either, sooo... Why not use Lapua cases and bullets? What�s good for the majority of the BR world might be good enough for me, if it was not for the fun of experimenting...

The accuracy of your rifle is very reassuring! With some tightness here and there in the chamber, a match barrel, match bullets, weighed match brass, turned necks, Wilson type bullet seater, weighed primers , 40 pound HV rifle. YES!

AKI

You don't say what you intend to use this rifle for. I'd suggest a 308 Norma Magnum or 30-338 (balistic twins) which are very well balanced rounds. They will produce velocities equal to the 300 Win Mag and I've not seen anything to suggest that the WSM is any faster. The 30-338 is extremely accurate. You can neck down 338 cases or neck up 7mm Rem Mag cases. You'll get four or five in the mag of a M70 or M98. Ku-dude

Where's MichaelK when we need him? As I recall, he was getting exceptional results with his 7.62 UKM (a .30-caliber on a shortened Lapua case.) Below is a picture he sent me: 338 Lapua on the left, and his 7.62 UKM on the right. He didn't tell me what the one in the middle was, but it looks like a screamer.

Did you see .300 Casull cartridge ?

ku-dude, I am looking at it for a 1000 yard target round.The 308 Norma/ 30-338 sounds like a good idea, but I do not need to go with something 30-378 Weatherby shoulder pounder.
I currently shooting a 6.5-284, but I need a new project and of course a new cartridge to work on this winter. Yes, the 6.5-284 does well @ 1000, but I am intrested in a 30 due to the better wind handling with 200+ grn bullets.
Since the action will be a Stolle, size and length won't be a problem. So when I choose the round all I need to do is get the action to match.

Dan. If you want better wind handling than 6.5mm why stop halfway at 30? Take a serious look at Cannons picture of the 338 Lapua Mag. With 250gr Lapua Scenars it�s better than any 30, with 300gr Sierras even better. Got one and love it! Easy to make shoot low .3"s. A windy day the PPC-gang can get stiff necks trying to stay with you even at 100m.

Cannon! How�s the 416 Medium comin� along? Got them 240�s straightened yet?

Jiri. Is that the 454 Casull necked down?

AKI

AKI: No, it is rifle cartridge designed by Dick Casull and there is also 6.5 Casull, and it is not .300, but .30 Casull, sorry - my mistake . . . here is picture and link :

I think there are not more in production, but something is here http://www.kwhitaker.8m.com/65casull.html

[This message has been edited by Jiri (edited 12-16-2001).]

Hi, Aki. Nothing new on that front yet, though I haven't given up hope. Any progress on your 500 NE project (or did those barrels go to finance another project -- I can't recall)?

The 500NE came to an inglorious end, fortunatly. Now I�m gathering the pieces for a substantially more powerful 50... Hehhhhehh AKI