I have a Kimber 84M Montana in .257 Roberts that I have finally given up on. Two years, a return to the factory, two different gunsmiths, 5 different bullets with 4 different powders, and on and on. Still shoots all over the place.

So what do I do with it now?

I don't really want to keep it after all the heartache, and Ruger currently offers a Hawkeye in .257 Roberts.

I could also get a new barrel put on, have the bedding worked on, and try again.

Finally, I could just save the action and try to turn it into something else. Maybe a .243 or .308?

I know many people have been through this before with Kimbers and I feel sorry for you.
You have to decide are you so sick of the rifle that you will never warm up to it even if it gets rebarreled then you must send it down the road.
If you'd be happy with it if it were shooting great then get a new barrel on it. Everyone needs a 257 Roberts they are great.
My son and I have one each and they are both absolute tack drivers, his has a Lilja barrel and mine a Pac Nor Super Match, both with ultra light barrels.

I am curious what was Kimbers response?

If you send it down the road it will most likely just turn into someone else's headache. If it were me, I would have done a re-barrel of the same cartridge or a sexy sounding wildcat.

Had exactly the same problem with a 338 Federal Kimber. Drove me crazy! I noticed the rifling towards the crown of the barrel seemed to get thin. The dealer I bought it from said I needed to make a strong case for them to respond. Anyway, sent them about 20 different targets with 20 different loads; not a single one was better than a 4" group and many were twice that. I believe that helped convince them. Got the gun back with affirmation that they agreed with me that the gun was defective. The rifle had a new barrel and some polishing on the feed ramp and two test targets each < 1" with different loads. Now one of the most accurate field rifles I have. The turn around time was less than 2 weeks. Unfortunately this seems to be an exception to most peoples experience.

I bought a Kimber 257R about 8 years ago. One trip to the range and I new there were problems. It shot all over the place. I sent it back in and Kimber said it was the barrel. They replaced the barrel and it shot great. Mine was a Select with French Walnut stock. It's still probably my prettiest rifle. I'm sorry to hear you are still having problems and it was never fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
I have a Kimber 84M Montana in .257 Roberts that I have finally given up on. Two years, a return to the factory, two different gunsmiths, 5 different bullets with 4 different powders, and on and on. Still shoots all over the place.

So what do I do with it now?

I don't really want to keep it after all the heartache, and Ruger currently offers a Hawkeye in .257 Roberts.

I could also get a new barrel put on, have the bedding worked on, and try again.

Finally, I could just save the action and try to turn it into something else. Maybe a .243 or .308?

There comes a time in life when we just say..... ENOUGH!....we take it to a gunshop and trade it for something else.....or we consign it to an auction....whatever it takes, we divest ourselves of it!...and we move on

I've done it with Savage, with Weatherby, and with Ruger.....

We don't drive foreward by looking all the time in the rearview mirror.....we put stuff like this behind us and simply move on!

260 Rem it

Or you can sell it to Ray and he can work his magic on it and in a year or so he can sell it as one the best shooting rifles he had.

Sorry to get rid and it does under an inch all the time and the velocities have increased 100fps.

quote:

One trip to the range and I new there were problems. It shot all over the place. I sent it back in and Kimber said it was the barrel. They replaced the barrel and it shot great

I discussed this rifle on AR last year looking for help on how I might fix it. Kimber's customer service was very polite, but their response was a single three round group of under 1" with Remington core-lokts and a 'sorry not our problem'. Frustrating thing is that the four, 3-shot, groups I sent them were 0.75", 1.5", 2.0" and I think 1.5 or 2.0". So even I could get a single 3 shot group of under an inch, but it was the exception. That was with Nosler accubond factory ammo.

The magazine is so short on this rifle, a bullet must be seated very deep, no room to play with seating depth.

I don't know if going to a shorter case like a 308 would buy any meaningful seating depth room.

If I do keep it I would probably do a 223 or 308 as I already have dies and such for reloading.

I won a 338 Federal at an NRA banquet several years ago. I handload and tried everything, nothing worked.

Sent it off to have it acccurized, gunsmith couldn’t get it to shoot.

He recommended a new barrel in a slightly heavier contour. Best decision ever. It is now a 257 Roberts and shoots lights out. I have standing offers to purchase.

I’d rebarrel it in a slightly heavier couture. 257 Bob or whatever.

Anyone have a good suggestions for a gunsmith who does good work? Life has kept me moving about once a year for awhile so I don't have 'a guy'. I'm in Washington now, but will be back on the East coast by the end of the summer.

quote:

Originally posted by smallfry:
I’d rebarrel it in a slightly heavier couture. .

Why?
I have many rifles that are well under 1" shooters that are ultra light contour. 2 in 257 Roberts, a .243, a .223, a 30/06, no need to put a heavy fat tube on them to get accuracy a good quality barrel of any contour will get you there.

I use Kevin Weaver of Weaverrifles.com for most of my work. He lives close but does work for people all over the country.
2 years ago I sent a rifle to McGowen barrels for a new barrel and they installed it on my action, it was a real bargain and it shoots sub 1" (6.5x55).
Lots of good choices out there.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:

quote:

One trip to the range and I new there were problems. It shot all over the place. I sent it back in and Kimber said it was the barrel. They replaced the barrel and it shot great

I discussed this rifle on AR last year looking for help on how I might fix it. Kimber's customer service was very polite, but their response was a single three round group of under 1" with Remington core-lokts and a 'sorry not our problem'. Frustrating thing is that the four, 3-shot, groups I sent them were 0.75", 1.5", 2.0" and I think 1.5 or 2.0". So even I could get a single 3 shot group of under an inch, but it was the exception. That was with Nosler accubond factory ammo.

After reading this post I must ask what exactly are your accuracy expectations?

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by smallfry:
I’d rebarrel it in a slightly heavier couture. .

Why?
I have many rifles that are well under 1" shooters that are ultra light contour. 2 in 257 Roberts, a .243, a .223, a 30/06, no need to put a heavy fat tube on them to get accuracy a good quality barrel of any contour will get you there.

I use Kevin Weaver of Weaverrifles.com for most of my work. He lives close but does work for people all over the country.
2 years ago I sent a rifle to McGowen barrels for a new barrel and they installed it on my action, it was a real bargain and it shoots sub 1" (6.5x55).
Lots of good choices out there.

Why? Because I am answering the op with my own suggestion. Ironcaly I never answered what cntr I was speaking of which would have been a Shilen #2. Is the kimber mt as heavy as a #2? No it’s lighter and quite frankly a little ghostly. So let me ask you... Why I am “wrong” for suggesting a heavier contour but you are not? Like yourself I’ve had great success with light tubes but would never replicate Kimbers contour.

Don't get offended Smallfry my point is the contour isn't his problem, he has a bad barrel. Like I said I have many extremely petite contoured rifle barrels that really shoot, a good quality barrel is a good barrel no matter of its contour. Sure get a thicker tube on it if he wants but the contour isn't the fix.

Yes. I’d rebarrel it.

Am I the only one offended by the idea of paying the price for a Kimber and then having to send it off to be re-barreled before it will shoot?

quote:

Am I the only one offended by the idea of paying the price for a Kimber and then having to send it off to be re-barreled before it will shoot?

Not alone on that one. I'm pretty tweaked about paying $1300 for a rifle that's all over the place. It's why I asked my original question, because I didn't want to off-load a decent action in a fit of frustration.

As to accuracy expectations, I would have been happy with 1.5" at 100 , if it would have done so reliably. Fire 4, 3-shot, groups at the same target and each individual group will measure about 1-2". However, the overall 12 shots will be spread at more like 3-4". And I do let the barrel cool in between shots and groups.

The final annoyance is that this is off of a bench. I can shoot the same type of groups with my 270 or 35 Whelen from sitting, or with my 416 Rem Mag off of shooting sticks. The 270 and 35 Whelen are stock Remingtons that cost about half of what the Kimber did. The 416 is a SC model Winchester M70, so it did cost about the same.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
I have a Kimber 84M Montana in .257 Roberts that I have finally given up on. Two years, a return to the factory, two different gunsmiths, 5 different bullets with 4 different powders, and on and on. Still shoots all over the place.

So what do I do with it now?

I don't really want to keep it after all the heartache, and Ruger currently offers a Hawkeye in .257 Roberts.

I could also get a new barrel put on, have the bedding worked on, and try again.

Finally, I could just save the action and try to turn it into something else. Maybe a .243 or .308?

Join the club. I had the same gun in 270wsm. It was a 2” gun on a good day, both before and after I sent it back to kimber. I sold it.
Purpose of the gun was a sheep hunt.
After I sold it I had Jim Kobe build me a 270wsm on a Rem 700 action, mcmillan lightweight, and shilen barrel. It shot circles around the Kimber, well under an inch.
If I had your gun I’d sell it instead of potentially throwing more money away.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:

quote:

One trip to the range and I new there were problems. It shot all over the place. I sent it back in and Kimber said it was the barrel. They replaced the barrel and it shot great

I discussed this rifle on AR last year looking for help on how I might fix it. Kimber's customer service was very polite, but their response was a single three round group of under 1" with Remington core-lokts and a 'sorry not our problem'. Frustrating thing is that the four, 3-shot, groups I sent them were 0.75", 1.5", 2.0" and I think 1.5 or 2.0". So even I could get a single 3 shot group of under an inch, but it was the exception. That was with Nosler accubond factory ammo.

Do they make a guarantee of better than hunting accuracy? Those groups are pretty normal for a sporting weight rifle with factory loads. I can't open their website here at work but I see "Sub-MOA" mentioned at Cabelas. You achieved that and so did they. I don't think anyone expects it will all brands of ammo. That's why there are so many brands. Find yours. Or, even better, reload.

4" groups . . . I'd be beating in their door with the buttstock.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
The magazine is so short on this rifle, a bullet must be seated very deep, no room to play with seating depth.

I don't know if going to a shorter case like a 308 would buy any meaningful seating depth room.

If I do keep it I would probably do a 223 or 308 as I already have dies and such for reloading.

You can load a few rounds with different seating depths and load them into the chamber individually to shoot them instead of running them through the magazine. See if that helps.

If it does I would think that a good smith should be able to file out a little bit more room for you to feed the longer cartridge through the magazine.

250 Savage AI?

I have a Kimber 84 that started as a 7-08. It shot 4" groups on a good day. Played with it a lot and just got tired of messing with it and sent it to Kimber with a letter. The lady from Kimber called and said the gunsmith agreed and they would re-barrel it but they had no 7mm barrels in stock and it would be 14 months before they were scheduled to run the 7-08 barrels again. She said I could have a .243, 308 or .257 Roberts. I took the Roberts.

The gun I got back is very accurate.

One thing you might check is your bench technique. I have found that small light rifles often don't shoot well off a traditional bench rest where you only hold the buttstock on the pistol grip. I have found many will respond well to a little downward pressure on the scope with your off hand and putting the front rest far to the rear--almost up against the floorplate around the front action screw. There are other tricks you can use with a light barreled lightweight rifle if you look around on Youtube etc.

I have a Tikka T3 lightweight and using traditional bench rest equipment/technique it was a 1.5-2" rifle. When I shifted the front rest as mentioned above and rested my left hand on the scope it turned into a sub-moa gun with mediocre factory ammo!

If it were mine, I reload it until I was exhausted and either rebore it or stick a new Lothar-Walthar barrel on it..Kimbers are nice guns and worth a rebarrel..that's my magic!

A rebore is half the cost of a rebarrel..I use High Plains Reboring...nrjonsn@Westriv.com..everone has shat great..

It would make a fine 7x57, a most amazing caliber when loaded with magic H414 in a long throated gun and 175 gr. Nosler accubonds its elk ready, 130 gr. Speers for all deer and antelope..If I only had one gun that would be my choice and has been for many years..but Ihave more than one gun.

I had a Kimber in 7/08 and it was never consistent, whether I shot factory or reloads. Just figured life was to short and I went with a Sako ultralight.

Are you shooting it from a Lead Sled?

My 223 has a blind magazine .The magazine was too long by about 3/16 " Tightening the receiver bolts stresses the receiver and reduces accuracy !! Cutting the magazine till it just snugged up to the stock cut groups in half !
Similar results when I put a shim under the front of the receiver raising the barrel up from the forend giving it a true free floating barrel !!
I may have asked this before but has anyone stress relieved the barrel ? Between 800and 1200 F for two hours would do that !

Were it mine, I would rebarrel it to 6.5 Creedmoor in a 24-inch Douglas No. 2 contour barrel. That way, you use the short action to good advantage and have a rifle that is easy to carry and in a pinch will kill anything from coyotes to elk.

95% of the time or better if a gun won't shoot its the barrel, the barrel is the heart of a rifle..Ocassionally it can be inletting, but that show up in a hurry, and you can zero in on it by the pattern it shoots...A good barrel will shoot pretty well, even with imperfection in inletting, so reinlet it or buy a new barrel always seems to work, that's the magic..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
95% of the time or better if a gun won't shoot its the barrel, the barrel is the heart of a rifle..Ocassionally it can be inletting, but that show up in a hurry, and you can zero in on it by the pattern it shoots...A good barrel will shoot pretty well, even with imperfection in inletting, so reinlet it or buy a new barrel always seems to work, that's the magic..

A good barrel wants to shoot.

I suspect Kimber has patchy quality control. In America they seem to gets reports from being hopeless to excellent. However, o Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum there are quite a few and all seem very good. Given the time frame and the way the imports works I would say those Kimbers would all be from the same batch.

I solved my bad experience with Kimber guns by never owning another.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
Don't get offended Smallfry my point is the contour isn't his problem, he has a bad barrel. Like I said I have many extremely petite contoured rifle barrels that really shoot, a good quality barrel is a good barrel no matter of its contour. Sure get a thicker tube on it if he wants but the contour isn't the fix.

I have a custom built pencil barreled .262 necked 6mm-PPC built as a light weight sporter on an XP action. It shoots 62.5 gr bullets through the "gain twist" barrel and will shoot one hole as many times are you're wanting to squeeze the trigger. It's the most amazing rifle I've ever owned or shot.

It's not cool and you lost at the game of Kimber-roulette.

The way I see it, there are only 3 ways out of this:

1- Keep it and hate it.
2- Sell it and ruin someone else's life.
3- Re-barrel it and blue-printing the action before doing the barrel and be happy.

Zeke

Call me the idiot, but I don’t get purchasing a Kimber. Everything I hear is bad stuff. For what they cost, they should be great out of the box.

They don't say "Kimber lottery" for nothing.

I've had a couple, with the emphasis on HAD. I sold mine with full disclosure to the buyer and DONE.

I simply don't know how they manage to stay in business with the crap they put out.

FYI Rockslide forum is full of people who love Kimbers and willing to buy the bad ones to work on at a fair price. That's where I sold mine.

Have the contour of the original barrel copied, Dennis Olson, Plains mt. has done this for me on more than a few ocassions and no inletting fix was required and if you need a better fit a paint coat of clear glass fixes most problems and doesn't show..The 250-3000 invaribly out shoots the 257 Robts btw..but to each his own..as does the .308..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Have the contour of the original barrel copied, Dennis Olson, Plains mt. has done this for me on more than a few ocassions and no inletting fix was required and if you need a better fit a paint coat of clear glass fixes most problems and doesn't show..The 250-3000 invaribly out shoots the 257 Robts btw..but to each his own..as does the .308..

I have used Dennis many times over the past 20 years. A super gunsmith.