Hi: Your argument sounds logical...but I repeated what has been reported...you're not comparing apples to apples, I think...
The .30 Newton case is different than most, due to its "fatness", little body taper, etc.
I think the .375 H&H is a lousy design...the fact that it has been used sucessfully is because a lot used it in lieu of anything else, because it was available..but that doesn't make it a good design...too much body slope or taper didn't let it load to a good potential. The improved versions with little body taper & sharper shoulder are much better.
Tom

quote:

Originally posted by bisonland:
"too much body slope or taper didn't let it load to a good potential."
Tom

Aw, You're putting me on;right????? roger

Hi: No, for the length & size of the .375 H&H, you should be able to stuff it with more powder to get its full potential..it has too much body taper &
thus limits its full potential. Long cases with a lot of body slope or taper belong with the dinosaurs...should be extinct. The improved versions with little body taper are much better to reload & achieve better potential.
Tom

"

quote:

Originally posted by bisonland:
Hi: No, for the length & size of the .375 H&H, you should be able to stuff it with more powder to get its full potential..it has too much body taper &
thus limits its full potential. Long cases with a lot of body slope or taper belong with the dinosaurs...should be extinct. The improved versions with little body taper are much better to reload & achieve better potential.
Tom

"

My quiry "You're putting me on ;right?" Was an attempt at cynical humor. Yes more velocity and energy can be realized with a blown out case. With this cartridge it seems to denote a bean field rino or cape (bison)[humor] rifle dictating a better designed series of long range dangerous game bullets.Having designed and built wildcats in this category I fail to see a real need.

Now if you type in .375 H&H Magnum on any of the search engines and learn the neolyphic history of this dinosaur you may come away with a different point of view. Poor design? Not hardly. roger

Anyway, the Newton is a full .12" fatter at the base than the belted mags. The 35 (or 30 necked to 375) will beat the H&H. Bet money on it. No reason it wouldn't.
An interesting note: Newton brought this round out in 1913.; the 6.5- and 8- x68mm RWS have pretty much the same case dimensions, but came out 25 years later. Hmmm.
The guy was truly ahead of his time.

That would make the Newton pretty close to the Remington Ultra-Mags in case dimensions, wouldn't it? Wayne

Well, it's closer to the H&H than the RUM, but it's certainly along those lines (in a standard length.)
Base diameters look like this (IIRC):
30-06 = .476
284/ 9.3x64/ 376 Steyr = .500
H&H = .511
Newton = .523
Jeffery = .542
RUM = .550
WSM = .555
Lazzeroni = .577
Lap/Wby/Rigby = .582-.590

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:

"An interesting note: Newton brought this round out in 1913.; the 6.5- and 8- x68mm RWS have pretty much the same case dimensions, but came out 25 years later. Hmmm.
The guy was truly ahead of his time.

"

Sadly BB the powders of the day were not ready for Newton's advanced designs.There also wasn't any media around to promote his obscure achievments nor was there a large group of advocates to support his activities. Just think if you will;had this happened in a society similar to what we have today , those on this forum would be debating how much better the Newton improved is over the parent cartridge. Oh well. roger

Indeed. I also read somewhere that his rifles came in around 7# all-up and recoil was quite, er..., noticeable.

Would you think that IF this case (30 Newton) was produced today, in good quality by a US factory, that it would have been apreciated as a round today??

I think It would!! Just think of all those pre WWII Mausers out there, just screeming for such a round!

Well, with marketing anything's possible! The RUM's and WSM's speak volumes to that.
But as for the American public recognizing it as a good round? Never. They've got the Win Mags they can pull off the shelf, and the increase just isn't worth the obscurity.
And the odd Mauser fanatic will never drive production or popularity; too many long actions in standard production these days. Winchester doesn't even make a standard-size action anymore, so it's hard to sell the "fits in a standard action" line.
Take Dakota for example. I think their 338 and 375 rounds (and 416 Howell in the same vein) are just the ticket for a Mauser, but you'll still never find them in a gunstore. And they are quite a bit more powerful than the Newton.
Really, the '06, H&H, Jeffery and Rigby cases run the gammut in size, and when you cut them to fit the various actions, there really isn't anything within reason you can't do and well.
[I just realized:

Swift -> '06= .035"

'06 -> H&H = .041"

H&H -> RUM = .039"

RUM -> Rigby = .042"

Rigby -> Gibbs = .043"
.... pretty even spread.
Also:

.243" -> .284" = .041";

.284" -> .323" = .039"

.323" -> .366" = .043"

.366" -> .408" = .042"

.408" -> .458" = .050"

So, to answer the age-old question of perfect battery: 6mm-220 Swift, 280 Rem, 8mm-338 Winchester, 9.3mm RUM, 408-416 Rigby and 458-505 Gibbs. Everyone clear? If you want to go bigger, you have to go 505-577 T-Rex. And then 550-BMG. Now, get to shopping!]

I disagree that the .30 Newton wouldn't go today if new brass was available..first of all...you have to realize that the Newton Cartridges were designed by Chas Newton were recognized as designed by a cartridge genius. They are well designed, and are very much like the "short" fat magnums like Dakotas, except beltless, efficient, and .30-06 length. Anyone can come out with a stovepipe type ultra mag...but they are waaay overbore, not efficient & in my opinion, not good designs. My .30 Newton will outperform the older standard, the .300 Weatherby...I've range compared them. And, for instance, the .300 WinMag with its short neck...the .30 Newton is par, but a better case design. Maybe can get better performance from the .30 Newton, haven't looked up the .300 WinMag lately. And, I've gotten lots of interest in the .30 Newton from Newton admirers who have original rifles & custom chamberings.
I think it would get attention & regain popularity once its qualities were real;ized. Jack Lott, of the .458 Lott, once wrote an article "The Return of the .30 Newton"...extolling its virtues. Richard Simmons had wrote it is probably the Best American cartridge ever designed. So, I wouldn't dismiss it so offhandedly. I think ".460 Weatherby" has something there. In fact a pro from a big bullet making company has stated to me, he thinks there would be a real good market for the Newton chambered rifles. For instance the .256 Newton was favored by the expert riflemen of the day over either the .270 Win or .257 Roberts in that class of cartridges.
It hasn't changed, is still a superior cartridge. All this would just need a little promotion, that's all.
Best Regards, Tom

Yeah, maybe I'm wrong. But you should realize that the Dakotas are beltless and '06 length. And they are only a wee fatter than the Newton. That was my point: if something so like it with a fair amount of money behind it and general armchair appreciation of the ballistic potential can't even put a dent in the market, I don't see why the Newton would.
Now, if Remington decided to take it up, say late '90's, and put their marketing behind it (and paid a couple writers to go shoot a zebra or something) then hell yeah, we'd be all over it.
The good news is, it doesn't cost all that much to get a custom chamber in most anything you want (say, gun + $3-500 for chambering and dies) and so what if you have to do your own load development!
Speaking of which and by the way, doesn't Shehane or someone have some wildcats based on an improved x68mm case? Is that the Boo-Boo, or is that a Ross case? If the former, then it might be a good place to look for some starting loads for the Newton.

I think the Newton line would be a good one to have & very versatile.
I also like fast rounds, but I am a fan of the old .375 H&H because it works how much deader that dead does it have to get before we're happy?

quote:

Originally posted by shorthair:
I think the Newton line would be a good one to have & very versatile.
I also like fast rounds, but I am a fan of the old .375 H&H because it works how much deader that dead does it have to get before we're happy?

A 4 year 2 month resurection? OK roger