I am sure I am the only person on the forum who does not know the name of this cartridge.

However I was debating on looking at necking one of my mag cartridges to this bore and just use a 338 case.

Is this what is called the 416 Taylor??

Appreciate the feed back,

cheers and good shooting
seafire

Yup, this is the .416 Taylor, named after a gunwriter of the O'Connor era, one Robert Chatfield Taylor. It is an attempt to put Rigby ballistics into a standard case, not the best course of action, IMO.

If, I wanted a .416, which I did and even bought an old Mod. 70 action for, I would much prefer the Remmy as it is the most practical, IMO. But, a Taylor is still going to be close to original Rigby specs, although the pressures will run higher than I like in a cartridge to be used for various dangerous animals.

In the right rifle, with a big, soft pad and the 350 Swift A-Frame, this would kick ass for Elk, Moose and grumpy bruins in thick cover and should give 2400 and change with this bullet, good enough for 200 yds or so.

the taylor CAN get to 2400, with a lngish barrel, and 400 grains, but it is best at 2300.. pressure, don't you know.

Think of it as a 404 rather than a 416 rigby...

fantastic round

jeffe

Kutenay & Jeff,

I was just interested in playing with a big bore. The idea struck me as a step up from just necking the 338 up to 375.

I have no plans to get into environments that something might eat me ( except I do hunt in cougar country), but as Kut pointed out, it would be a short range Elk thumper!

NOT long ago I saw one of a CZ/Brno action ( old 8mm Mauser redone). It just sort of struck my fancy.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

You might want to consider an Adams & Bennet short-chambered barrel for a K98. Get your CZ for <$99 and the bbl for about the same, have a smith headspace it for you and you have a pretty cheap big bore to play with.
There's vaired opinion about A&B barrels, but the overall concensus seems to be you get what you pay for, and they're worth about $100. And you don't need a reamer.
Just a thought.

Since you are thinking an action that will handle a magnum case it will also handle a RUM case.Your Elk Thumper .416 can have its start tonite. I will donate 100 .375 RUM virgin cases (for your great time consuming dollar eating work you did in bringing us the Blue Dot scynario)and maybe B Wana-Be can help you find reamers and such or whatever so that next season you can shoot a Royal at 2400ft./sec. with a great big "ELK THUMPER". Let the fun begin. roger

I have a 03a3 on my table in the shop right now that I am attempting to polish out the tang area on in prep for having built into a 416 Taylor as a gift for my stepfather. It'll end up costing more than getting a cz in 416 rigby, but will be much more unique. How many springfields do you come across in 416 Taylor?

Have it all mapped out now and just a matter of money coming in to make it happen. giving myself a generous schedule of finishing by Christmas. If you decide to do it keep us posted so I can see how you progress.

As soon as I finish the stuff that I am going to do to it I will post the first batch of pics. I think I have decided on sights for it as well, pending my gunsmiths thoughts on the subject.

Red

I love my Taylor built on a vz-24 with the AB barrel. It shoots plenty tight and is a very nice change. You can get correctly headstamped brass I believe but if you are forming brass, I would recommend you start with 458 and not 338. You will have fewer split necks or mouths. Annealing also helps.
I used Ken Waters favorite loads for my starting point and am happy with 4320 and a 400 grainer. This is a great round for bear and I even played with the 350 grainer for reaching out for deer. No Elk yet.
Just do it and Enjoy.
Frank

Hiya seafire. I'm surprised that no one offered up this site yet:
416 Taylor

The Taylor is something I have thought about off and on for a few years now. It would certainly make a 98 Mauser action (like the CZ) jump up the power ladder a few rungs! I've used A&B bbls in projects, and have been very satisfied with them - for hunting rifles. They may not be the top choice for competition, but hey the price is right! I get groups under 1" in my 338-06 AI with the cheapo A&B bbl from midway - can't complain about that. It should be a fun project - keep us informed if you jump on it. maxman

Where can one buy A&B barrels and do thye come in stainless ??

I also think it is pretty easy to re-barrel a Ruger MK11 in .338 to .416 taylor. The MK11 is also a mauser derivative to boot.

Use the RUM cases and keep all the dimesions the same as the Taylor and create the Seafire Elk Basher!!!!!!!

Did you see the B17 belly flop yesterday at Burbank? They say they will repair it. roger

PC - this is where I got mine in 338. The link is directly to their 416 Taylor chambered bbls. I'm not sure if they will deliver to Australia - but they might have an outlet there?? If you start with a Savage magnum action, all you need is a headspace gauge and their $140 bbl - no reamer or anything. About a 15 minute deal, and you're done! The Mauser bbl is threaded and short-chambered, so you'd need a reamer to finish the headspace. maxman

Midway

A slightly shortened RUM case is a good idea, Roger. I've thought about that one too - except in .375 cal. It would be better than the 375 H&H, yet not so punishing as the full-on 375 RUM, plus would fit in a standard action, plus has no belt on the brass. I'm still up in the air about the true big bore I will get. There are so many choices to weigh - and my 45-70 doesn't qualify, I guess Maybe necking the 375 RUM brass to 416 and leaving it full length would be another option, starting with a magnum action. hmm Oh well, have to keep pondering. maxman

It is much easier to form them out of 458wm cases. This winter I did a pair on ruger mkII stainless actions. Fun gun I can get 2440 out of my 350s speers 2350 out of 350 barnes X bullets.

My fun load most likely will be a resized 429 300 jsp resized to 416 a lot cheaper and at 2200 fun to shoot. I have also played with some resized 429 cast bullets 255grs with 10 grs of herco at 1010fps they shoot dead on at 25 one hole groups .5 inchs low at 50 yards. I most likely
well buy a 300 429 mould and shoot them around a 1000 to. Fairly quite not recoil enough power to take deer to 50 yards. But still can be uwed on rabbits ect.

Look under big bores lots of info on the taylor there.

And here's one from Dr Howell. A 2.5" case for a standard action, based on 404 Jeff brass (or one could use RUM brass for that matter):



And of course, there is a 375 Howell as well. Not much hasn't been done! And some corresponding data....

375 and 416 Howell Load Data

This data has been provided by Dr. Ken Howell.

375 Howell Load Data
Bullet Type Bullet Weight Powder Charge Velocity Comments
Sierra 300gr H4831 76gr 2,370
Sierra 300gr IMR-4350 71gr 2,480
Sierra 300gr IMR-4350 72gr 2,512
Sierra 300gr IMR-4350 73gr 2,550

416 Howell Load Data
Bullet Type Bullet Weight Powder Charge Velocity Comments
Barnes 300gr IMR-4064 63gr NA
Barnes 300gr IMR-4064 66gr 2,340
Barnes 300gr IMR-4064 68gr 2,430
Barnes 300gr IMR-4064 70gr 2,488
Barnes 300gr IMR-4064 72gr 2,560
Barnes 300gr IMR-4064 73gr 2,593
Barnes 300gr W-748 85gr 2,750

Barnes 400gr W-748 77gr 2,448
Barnes 400gr IMR-4320 78gr 2,456

The Howell is the Elk Thumper you got to have.BUT I have a similar 8mm wild cat that I designed before the RUMs and the head diameters are different enough that 404s work and rums do not. That's why I got the 100ea. 375 RUM cases I offered to give you.I lapped the chamber but it is still a tight fit.Also I have Norma and Bell .404 cases and head diameters measure .541" -.5425". The .375 RUMs measure slightly over .545". If you do get this made make sure the smithy has a reamer based on the RUM. roger

This is true. The Howell case is slightly different than the RUM. I believe that the RUM is actually slightly rebated, so you end up with a larger base diam. for a given rim size. Anyway, either one will work as the parent for a wildcat like this - you just have to decide what brass you want to use and built it around that. This also begs the question: Which brass will be around in 5 or 10 years? Will the RUMs be a flash and gone, or will they be around as long as the Jeff? The RUM brass is a lot cheaper now, and hopefully it will stay that way. I'd like to see that case be available for a long time. maxman

Thanks for everyone's responses. I confess that I had not checked into the room since I originally posted. I appreciate the offers for the Brass Sir Bartsche!

Max, thanks for your info and input. I hope that the Die for the Legion is working and "hoped" it has not had to be used yet tho. We loose too many vets every day.

I may check out the Adams and Bennet barrel at Midway.
Sounds like the route to go.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

The Taylor doesn't even mention the words magnum in its title does it? I can see the Mag guys just waiting to call me a hypocrit for getting a " Magnum".

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Nope, there is no 'magnum' in the name. Just "416 Taylor". You might be able to sneak this one in under their radar The A&B bbl is right for an experiment, I think. If it shoots well, you have a bargain. If not, at least you got to try the round and are not out a lot for a custom barrel.

The die works great. We have made some test loads and fired them in the post's P17s. I thank you again, good sir. Sadly, there has been a call to use blanks several times this winter/spring. They are still using their surplus ones at this point. It always seems that winter here is unpleasantly 'busy'. Perhaps things will look better now that the weather has turned around.


Take care, maxman

If anyone is interested, I have a 23" Bauska 416 bbl. threaded for a LR Mauser still in the white and a set of Redding 416 Taylor dies, both for $125. Started a Taylor project and got sidetracked.
Doug

If you want to avoid the brass forming process for the Howell, just neck up a 375 Dakota to 416 and start shooting. It has the same powder capacity as the 416 Rem, and fits a shorter action.

PS: Many shooters fail to see the utility of a 300 gr bullet in the 416 Rem...it has a sectional density of .248 and decent BCs. A 416 REm drives hem 2950 fps, and the Taylor would make 2800 fps, no problem. Trajectory is a dead ringer for the '06 with 165 gr spitzers. For general North American duty this can be cut back to 2500 fps using only about 55 grs of XMP5744 and puts you in the 300 Win mag recoil department. Right there with the 375 H&H and only a fraction of the pain...

How about a .375 Taylor (.338 case topped with .375 bullets)? Take a look at some reloading data for it (the data may be at the .416 taylor page):

http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/375Taylor.htm

Ray -

The 375 Taylor is one of the finest wildcats ever conceived. I have been bugging Adams and Bennett to make barrels in this chamber as well, but they don't think it is well known...hence, no market.

The injustice of it all...we are led down the yellow brick road by gun writers and advertisers and there sits the best of them all, with little market.

It does what a 375 H&H was intended to do BETTER than the H&H and it does what the 338 Win Mag was intended to do BETTER than the 338 Winnie.

Such a feat is possible because the 375 Taylor is inadvertently a scaled up 308 Winchester....they have identical expansion ratios. The same propellants launch the same sectional densities at the same velocities.

In my book, that's a handloader's dream...

Doug- is that bbl chambered at all, or just a threaded blank? What is the twist? I'm interested... Thanks, maxman

maxman,
I sent you an email. Talk to you soon.
Doug

Doug - that e-mail address is having issues... Can you send a PM to me here instead? Thanks! maxman

maxman
Sent you a PM
Did you get it????
Doug