Hi guys,
I’m new to this forum, but I think I’ve learned a lot from reading many of the post. There seems to be a great deal of experience and knowledge out there, so I would like some opinions and suggestions for a rifle I hope to build soon. I would like to build a light mountain rifle, 6.5mm caliber that is capable of achieving 2900-3000 fps mv from a 22â€-23†barrel with a 130 grain Scirocco II. From what I have read, it seems that a .260 AAR or a 6.5x55 A/I would come close to meeting this requirement. I would appreciate any info, comments and opinions concerning these cartridges and what tools and components I would need to chamber and reload this round.
Thanks,
Dave

To be honest I have no clue what a 260AAR is. Looking at Loadtech it shows a pressure limit of around 54000 for the AAR and 47800 for the 6.5X55. At those pressure won't come close to 2900. If I raise the limit on the AAR to 60,000 I get numerous loads that give 2900-3050 with a 130 in a 22" barrel. The 6.5X55 at 60,000 has a couple loads that bump 2900 the AI version will give 2950+/- from a 22". An inch of barrel will only adds 20FPS. So I would opt for the 22.

Ramrod,

260 All Around Rifle...an oldie but a goodie from the Apex Rifle Co back in the 40's-50's that Remington so wisely copied and called the 260 Remington. They cut 7x57 mauser brass bck to 2.17", sharp shouldered and blew out to make a nifty short action 6.5.
Personally, I would build a 6.5x55 Swede and go happy with factory ammo and brass available or reload to a bit higher velocity.

Rich

quote:

260 All Around Rifle...an oldie but a goodie from the Apex Rifle Co back in the 40's-50's that Remington so wisely copied and called the 260 Remington.

Thanks Idaho. I had load data in the software but no discription. If it is basically a 260 the Loadtech data concerns me a little. It shows 62grs water for the AAR but only 56 for the 260. So the AAR velocities might be a touch high.

Argali,

If you go the .260AAR route, I will sell you my set of dies. I shot one for several years. Might even have some formed brass around.

The .260AAR is the same as the 6.5x57 improved IIRC. You basically have a .257 Roberts Ackley improved necked up to .264. MtnGun, if Argali doesn't want the dies, what would you sell them for?

Sambubba

I have a 260AAR built on a Sako L579 with the magazine box lenthened a bit. The barrel is a Douglas 1-9 twist and is 23ins. long. Rifle complete with 6X Lyman scope weights 7lbs 10 ozs.
You can expect the following:
120gr. bullets - 3150fps.
129gr. bullets - 3000fps.
140gr. bullets - 2850fps.

I always have have wanted a 256 Newton, I sure it would feed better. The 260AAR feeds ok - most of the time, but has had it's moments.

Pedro

my 6.5x55AI has proven so accurate with a 26" super match 4 groove tube that it will be going to the next 600yd match with me. Great Lapua brass available and will run the 140gr pills at close to or right at 3000fps.

Sambubba and Pedro are both correct. Sam with his knowledge of the AAR design and Pedro with his velocities! Mine is on a Beezer and shoots the [almost] identical velocities as Pedros but with a 22" barrel. Most guys just neck the standard 7MM Mauser cases down to 6.5 and fire-form. I make my brass from Lake City NM 30-06 brass. Pain in the A-- but it makes great cases. It lasts forever [almost] and is very accurate. I like the Hornady 129s at 3050 the best for deer etc. Shot a few elk too with no problems. The 125 Noslers at 3060 are good for deer and antelope but the same holds true for the Sierra 120s which seem to kill just about the same as the Noslers and are a heck of a lot cheaper. Great cartridge.

Aloha, Mark

I still have a supply of the old Nosler solid base bullets in 120gr. That's a great deer and antelpoe bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
An inch of barrel will only adds 20FPS. So I would opt for the 22.

If 22" of barrel is what is going to be used, just drop the AI and go with the original. At that barrel length, I would go for the .260 Rem, or even the new 6,5x47.

I would answer the question with another...what action do you have in mind?

If you want a very light "mountain rifle" built on a short action I would suggest the .260 Remington. For any of the other cartridges mentioned a long action would be the choice.

A friend used to have a .260 AAR and while it is a fine cartridge I do not think that it offers much over a 6.5x55 in the shorter barrels you are considering. There is better quality brass available for the 6.5x55 which would be an important consideration for me. Also because of the barrel length you are interested in I would probably opt for the regular 6.5x55 because I doubt the value of the extra case capacity with a short barrel.

Some comments were made about the lower working pressure of the 6.5x55 which are somewhat misleading. Unless you are using a very old action that is not an issue.

There was an article about a "6.5x55 BJ Ackley Improved" in Precision Shooting some time back (Ackley never actually did the case). It was a nice project, and does have the advantage over the .260 AAR of being able to shoot factory ammo in a pinch, but I question the benefit of the effort unless you "just want something different", which is a perfectly good reason to do things.

In a long action the 6.5x55 should be capable of velocities in the range you mention without burning quite so much powder as the "improved" cases.

Good luck with your project!

Hi guys,
Thanks for all the input and info. I’m probably going to go with the .260 AAR in Rem. 700 titanium LA, 23†ABS carbon wrapped, Rock Creel barrel, 1-9†twist, Lone Wolf carbon/Kevlar stock; Zeiss 2.5-8x32 scope & Talley mounts. I plan to use 130 grain Swift Scirocco II’s, Win. brass, Fed 210M primers & start working-up loads with VV 165 & H 380. I plan to mainly use this rifle for hunting Coues & mule deer in Sonora & possibly Aoudad & pronghorns. I figure if I can push the bullet (b.c. .571) near 3000 fps, I’ll have a very flat trajectory with minimum wind drift. My 7mm Dakota & .257 Wby. will serve the same purpose & then some, but I just want a shorter rifle with less recoil in a cartridge that is unique.
Thanks again for your help,
Dave

Well good luck. You might be a little optimistic on the velocity. I had real trouble getting Loadtech to get me 3000FPS from a 23" barrel with a limit of 65,000.

quote:

If I raise the limit on the AAR to 60,000 I get numerous loads that give 2900-3050 with a 130 in a 22" barrel.

ramrod,
What powder did Loadtech choose to acheive this. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Dave

Real world pressures (and velocities) will vary quite a lot depending upon the throating of the chamber...no surprise there, but something to discuss with the 'smith prior to commiting to a particular reamer.

Unless throated to take advantage of the long action magazine length the cartridge will not, im my opinion, reach its performance potential.

quote:

ramrod,
What powder did Loadtech choose to acheive this. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Dave

Dave,
I have to claim user error. Garbage in garbage out. When I ran the numbers the first time. Loadtech doesn't have the 130 Scirocco listed. So I looked at the Swift 120 @1.15" and 140 @1.24" and then took a 130gr bullet with the length half way between. When today you posted the BC I knew that you were talking a LONG bullet. So I went to their website and looked it up. They list it at 1.353". In that small case that .158" uses up a lot of powder capacity. Loadtech has the OAL at 3". At 65,000 from a 23" Norma MRP, H414, Benchmark, and H4350 all show they can in theory hit 3000 but at the pressure limit.

If your magazine would allow it an oal of 3.158 would allow you in the 3000 range closer to the 60,000 mark. H380 shows to be a couple 100fps less.

With comments about making the 260AAR from 243 brass and it being the parent of the 260Rem I really question the 62gr capacity that Loadtech has listed. If the capacity is 56 like the 260 then you are looking more like 2750-2825 for that long bullet.

As stated below the 6.5-284 makes a lot of sense.


Sorry about the confusion. What I get for ASSUMING.

If you are going long action, why not go w/ the 6.5x.284? You should easily get 2900fps w/ a 130gr bullet & factory brass is even available. I had a .260ai done on a M700SA in a target conifg. but am thinking it would make a nice 7# mtn. rifle w/ 23" bbl. I can push right to 3100fps w/ 120gr bullets from my 26" bbl. so I would think 2900fps from a 23" could be done. Good Lapua .243 breass is readily formed to .260ai.

Argali
Give the 6.5-06 a look..I'm going to change my Sheep package...I've looked at all the above.. Since you've looked at them..Give a short glance to the 6.5-06..
AK

I have the 6.5-06 and the 6.5x55. The 6.5x55 comes awful close to the velocities of the 6.5-06. Of course I can jack up the 6.5-06. Early on I was using a load with a 140gr Hornady that cronographed just over 3100frs. Case life 2 rounds!

Don Fisher
What brass did You start with to Fireform for the 6.5-06..Was it 270 Win..Was it 06.. 25-06..
AK

Argali, et al.,

Being a big fan of the 6.5 bore I started a thread on another forum dealing with many of the 6.5 cartridges. If you are still interested in pursuing info on the subject you might want to click on the following:

.... http://thehunterslife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1560 ....

Best regards,

Ol' John

A bit of input for 6.5 fans..the venerable .256
Newton will come alive again, as Jamison is going to make new brass in .256 Newton. I use this cartridge in my Newton Rifle. The late P.O. Ackley
called it:"One of the finest cartridges in its class", and was said by expert riflemen of the time they preferred it to eithet the .257 Roberts or .270 Winchester. That said, the .256 Newton is basically a 6.5-06, although a slighly shorter case. Its attributes are accuracy & fairly good velocity. I get 3115 fps with a 24 inch barrel & the Hornady 129 gr. bullet. A 22 inch barrel would have a bit less, but not much less velocity. It takes my Antelope & Deer quite well. Its also real easy to make...just run .25-06 cases through the .256 Newton die & shorten to length. If I were to select a new one, I'd opt for the 6.5-284.
Best Regards, Tom

White Bison,

Where did you see the information about Rick Jamison getting some .256 Newton brass made?

Thanks

Graf & Buffalo Arms has the Jamison new Newton brass backordered. I also called Jamison & they said it would be forthcoming, perhaps available by the end of the year or early next year.
There will be .256 Newton, .30 Newton & .35 Newton Brass offered. Graf has prices too in their catalog. I've backordered some.
Aloha,
Tom

It would be nice to get brass for the 256 so stamped! I have quite a bit of the original stuff but won`t use it. I use N.M Lake City reworked. It has a little less capacity than the standard 06 but lasts forever and gives me the accuracy/velocity I want.

Aloha, Mark