This is in representation to troll handles, not to any PERSON as these people are not traceable to a specific person. Therefore, this is not libel, rather statement of facts as presented in these forums.

to bring those who don't know up to speed.

the forums had/has an infestation of trolls, under the various guises of axel, todd E, sniper in the grassy knoll (that one drives me nuts) 500 ahr, NRA Chick, TEG,and several others. ah yeas, and Steve S-something

Judy presented herself as todd's wife, and a medical doctor. Axel presented himself as a coworker of todd, an engineer, a german national, who owned guns.. no wait, his WIFE owns guns. (i am a little confused on WHO's wife this troll might be at this point)

Axel asks for someone to help him post pictures of HIS 458 winmag, on a model 70.... the picture he sends is INTERESTING, to say the least.. when called that the gun is NOT what's represented, he explains that it's a 450 watts on a Winchester pre64 supergrade 458 win mag, that is "dad' spent about 100 hours turning into a square bridged action...

Funny, it's a CZ 550... and the round posted with it is a 500 AHR.. oh, yeah, and the picture is copied FROM AHR as a demo of one of THEIR guns on their website....

Axel then demands he'll (have made, actually) both a 458 and 22LR DGR-designed rifles, and won't post until they are done.

Funny, both Axel and Todd are HUGE on action-strength calculations and are "experts" on all things related to gunsmithing and reloading, yet never have they built a rifle or presented pictures of THEIR rifles. When they post pictures, they admit that these are NOT their guns

Judy picks up in the middle, claiming loads of FIRST HAND knowledge, but admits she's only taken a shot at an elk, with her husbands (getting the circular logic here) 416 Rigby, but missed...

Judy, last December, defended "her man" ToddE who had a huge mental break down on this forum, and now claims they are never involved... Judy, who other than being a medical doctor, is also a waitress at a local waffle house, again, her own admission, who speaks fluent Canadian French, but can't decipher simple phrases (see political forum) in that language.

As, yes, all three major personae are infallible unless they correct themselves, and go into massive tirades if questioned, but feel free to attack anyone at will, at length.

Now, to their credit, they are masters at 3 techniques in their discourses 1: spurious and/or specious arguments 2: Strawman/misdirection and 3: nontopical discourse/ranting/playing the victim.

1 Spurious adj 1: plausible but false; Much like the old joke along the lines of "if you place a rooster on the edge of a roof, and it lays an egg, which side will it fall down" neither, as it's a rooster. Specious Apparently right; superficially fair, just, or correct, but not so in reality; appearing well at first view. As in Axel's bragging that he and his dad turned a $1500 winchester into a $600 cz and it's a 458 watts, not a 500ahr. (which now seems to be a 495asquare.. morphed again, as neither todd nor axel ever claimed one of these)

2: strawman... great tactic to pull folks off topic... Like saying .. "he says abc will happen, and therefore he must mean xyz will too, so let me tell you how bad XYZ is" This is commonly used when an example, analogy or allegory is represented. A further example is when axel POSTED that 'i have no idea how they got a hold of an old picture of my gun" <big bore forums>

3: nontopical discourse/ranting/playing the victim. These are used just before the troll claims to be leaving forever. "Why are you picking on me, I didn't do anything to you" Other than call you a liar, and a fraud in another thread. Or endless streams of PERSONAL attacks on those that disagree with it.. and then, it's final tactic... claiming to be leaving, forever.

A critical point to understand about this is that the troll never posts pictures of it's guns, hunting, or self... it always has some sort of failure to do so, or won't, or doesn't have it any more. It's data is never presented as from it's source, an example axel once posted a long discourse on the merits of various double rifle actions... and changed 1 word from a published website, but presented as his original engineering work. Then they will present other peoples data "i have extensive reloading notes on the 495 a2", but fail to mention that they never loaded a round for it.

Another hallmark is that it can never say "you know what, you might be right" or "close enough" or, my favorite phrase when i've stepped on it "fair enough, we'll leave it at that"

A communication derailer that i tend to see also is the undying requirement for it to ALWAYS be right.. if you've gotten a load, chronoed it, and posted the results, it has been known to argue that you got that from a book and those are not YOUR results, an attack on Nick makes this extremely clear (big bore forums)

another tactic is to create a new handle, ask simple questions "has anyone used a oehler system 43 pressure tester" and then act as if it invented the system, all the while merely spouting the data from the makers website and/or sale material.

lastly, and a most interesting one, it likes to have several screennames at once (you'll never see it as a logged in member) and have discussions and or arguments with itself, and then, a month or so later, admit it's the handle that it was talking with. A particularly poignant example is when axel had a huge online fight, for 3 weeks, with 500ahr... which later turned out to be another one of axel's handles. A nice turn of this tactic is to post "other people on this forum have emailed me, saying what an idiot you are, and that your profound lack of knowledge/experience is humorous to them" when it turns out that the people emailing them are other handles that the troll is using....

Sorry for such a long note
jeffe

Jeffe,

What wound you up?

It is just tiring and I ignore them, totally. I never respond to their posts, never even read the posts, just jump right over them. If other posters do respond and it is clear that the topic has been hijacked, I skip that topic. A lot of that in the Small Game Forum (why does everything have anything to do with shooting cats?).

One would have to be particularly pathetic to participate in such a time wasting exercise.

jeffeosso,

You sir, just do not have enough to do....

Hobie,
Ever had food poisoning? Trolls are like food poisoning, to me. You know, you go to a nice place, have a nice meal, and spend the night retching?

Good idea, though, to just skip any replied-to-troll thread... Hope I can take that advice.

Thanks Bill...
or, perhaps I am explaining my adgada

What you condone you endorse.

jeffe

[ 10-31-2003, 21:36: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Jeffe, good post.

Hobie, You cut me to the quick! That's life, you'll figure it out one day. Probably.

After reading a few of the 'Posts', you get a feeling for the content and grammer type. I always wonder when a new poster comes on with specific questions and it sounds the same.....

Being a yooper, Michigans upper peninsula. We know where trolls live under the bridge and are fair game. When you encounter one, just ignore it don't respond to its posts sooner or later, they will go away or start making sense. Most of these have went to other forums as well, I do believe they are the PETA, anti-gun, anti-hunting crowd, did like what they did at the annual prarie dog shoot last year, they blew whistles trying to scare the dogs, the town put out a full page ad thanking them it was a record year because the curious dogs had never heard whistles like that they popped up more often.

and here is a perfect example of a troll stealing someone else's pictures...

http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=004167

swany,
i know exactly where that bridge is... I can even pronouce Cheboygan right... and i've camped in the state park... sleeping bear dune.. iron mountain and copper point... lake superior is frickin COLD on the 4th of july...

and a good enough place to hunt pike and trolls

[ 11-07-2003, 06:40: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]