I was thinking of large cases necked down with extremely heavy for caliber bullets that were long and with a high BC. I saw something on this site once upon a time about a 450 Rafiki or something along those lines. It had a real long neck, and if you necked it down you could use some really heavy bullets, like the 105 grain .224 or heavier, 190 grain .270, 150 grain .25, 210 grain 7mm, etc.

Thanks for any replies.

Richard Graves the proprietor of Wildcat bullets makes a variety of bullets, but appears to specialise in heavy for calibre bullets, and has made some 100 and 107 grain ULD's in 224 with a FB 110 grain on the drawing board. He also makes 125, 130, 142 and 156 grain bullets in .257 calibre. In 277 calibre I am aware that he has made some 169 and 195 grain ULD's, and a 200 grain ULD in 7mm. He is currently testing a 295 grain ULD in 308, and has produced a 350 grain ULD in 338.

I have some of Richard Graves Wildcat 100 grain ULD's in .224 which are 1.300 inches long, and some of Garry Little's 105 grain ULD's that are also 1.300 inches in length.

In about 1 month my gunsmith will be fitting the Krieger 26 inch 1 in 6.5 twist barrel to a Rem 700 Long action, and chambered to the .224 Clark. (22/257 Roberts imp 30) I am anticipating getting about 3,100 - 3150 fps with the 105 grain bullet, so it will be interesting to see if I can achieve that.

I am aware of several people that found that a 1 in 7 twist barrel will stabilise and shoot accurately both the 100 and 107 grain Wildcat bullets.

Tomorrow I hope to test for the first time the Wildcat 156 grain ULD's (1.550 length) in my 257 Weatherby, which is built using a Rem 700 long action and Krieger 26 inch 1 in 7 twist barrel.

I am hoping to achieve about 3,000 fps or just above, with this bullet and about 3,250 fps with the Wildcat 142 grain ULD.

Kirby Allen a Montana gunsmith has successfully used the 156 grain bullet in his 257 AM at a velocity of 3,350 fps.

I am also waiting on test reports on the Wildcat 45 grain ULD (about .950 length) in .172 calibre, before deciding to order a 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 twist barrel.

Hope that the above is of some help. Brian.

Brian,
Who is the 'smith your with the 224Clark reamer?
Cheers...
Con

Con,

Bill Hambly-Clark Jr is the only gunsmith I have used for chambering rifles over the last 38 years. He currently lives in Barcaldine in Central Queensland, after previously living in Broken Hill, Tumbarumba, and Adelaide.

The 224 Clark reamer that Bill uses has a neck diameter of .2543, which means that I turn the case necks to about .014 inches to give sufficient clearance.

I still have about 50 formed cases from a prior .224 Clark that was built by Bill in 1988. I found that the Winchester .257 Roberts cases when necked down to .224 had a capacity of 57.1 grains and this increased to 63.8 grains when fireformed. This capacity is identical to a .22/284 that I had in 1972.

My last .224 Clark was built in 1988, and that rifle (M700 SA, Shilen 25.25 inch barrel) achieved velocities of 3930 fps with the 69 Grain Sierra, 3,830 fps with 75 Amax, and 3,740 fps with 80 grain Sierra.

Hope that the above is of some help. Brian.

have we talked about my 22-378Wby-AI?
With a 7" twist it should shoot them puppies well past 4000fps.

Rich

Rich,

I agree that your 22/378 imp would have a good chance of pushing the 100 grain "puppies" through the chrono at 4,000+ fps. However, in a 7 twist and at over 411,000 rpm, the chances of the bullets reaching 100 yards might be slim.

Several shooters have found that the existing 100 & 107 grain Wildcats are shooting very accurately and holding together at velocities up to about 3,100 fps in a 7 twist barrel.

So cases such as the 22/250AI, 22BR, 22 Dasher and other cases of similar capacity that are capable of achieving 3,100 fps would be ideal for the existing Wildcat 100 and 107 grain bullets.

I am aware that in one instance, 3,400 fps was obtained with the 107 grain bullets with a 22/270WSM in a 27 inch Lilja 3 groove barrel. However, despite a thicker tapered jacket that was being used, the bullets came apart at over 3,100 fps.

Despite this, the bulletmaker is confident that he can produce a bullet that will withstand higher velocities. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.

I initially gave thought to using slightly larger case than the .224 Clark. However, I decided against it because with the powders I could access, I estimated that I would have trouble getting above 90% loading density at maximum pressure, and certainly nowhere near my preferred 95 -100% loading density.

Out of curiosity what powders were you using in the 22/378 Imp., and did you wish you had access to slower powders than currently available? Regards, Brian.

Does anyone know the BC and trajectory of these bullets at whatever velocity you are launching them? I've already talked to Kirby Allen about his cartridges and stuff, they are just about the coolest thing ever.

Brianw,

have had a great deal of success out to 750-800yds on Rockchucks here in Idhao with an 8" twist 22-284 and JLK 80gr VLD's around 3600fps. Built on an XP-100 action and a 28" fluted 1.2" diameter Lilja barrel with 2oz Jewell trigger, after 500+ rounds it still shoots in the low-.2"s at 100yds. The "how" of the long shots is a pair of Geovid laser rangefinder binocs.


Rich

PS: the key with any of these big cased 22's is keeping the barrel cool, no machine gunning.

I know of someone using 105's in a standard 223 case

later
P

my 2 cents worth...the .22 Newton was a 7x57 case necked to .228", not .224"...pretty close though.
The rifling twist is 1 in 8" in my Ackley .228 Newton barrel. The early experimenters had problems with finicky loads, more so than stability. So say, you had a .22 Newton firing 90 gr. bullets...the twist must be fast: 1 in 8" was used...then this fast twist was limiting in intitial high velocity, causing a lot of resistance. Newton also used a 2 diameter bullet of 90 gr. with the bore bearing surface being relatively short...then the rest of the bullet wasn't touching the rifling. You run into problems with extreme cartridges, the least problem would be stability. I have a 94 gr. 228 bullets that are single diameter bullet...they have so much length of bearing surface, I would be very hesitant to try heavy loads, quick twist & long bullet? Limitiing factors to high velocity, lets say.
Best regards,
Tom

Tyler Kemp, sounds like you want a .226 Barnes QT. It used a 7 Mauser size case firing 125 gn .226 bullets (SD .350) at 2700 fps using 49 gn of .50 BMG powder. The bullets were 1-3/8" long and required a 5.5" twist. The 6.5 used a 7 RM size case firing 200 gn bullets (SD .410!) at 2700 fps using 64 gn of the same powder. Wildcat Bullets seems to be the only current supplier of high SD bullets for the small bores.

The .226 Barnes QT sounds interesting, using different powders would it be able to speed it up at all? It definetly wouldn't be a barrel burner. What about a 22-300 H&H? Long neck and shoulder, but does a long neck even help with longer bullets? I don't know much about the physics of what happens, but it seems to me if the bullet was deep in the case it could have bad effects? Maybe not? Anyone know?

The internal ballistics simulator QuickLoad suggests that Hodgdon's 50BMG is just about the right speed for the .226. Since Hodgdon doesn't offer a slower stick powder anyway, going to a bigger case won't buy you as much fps as usual, QL suggesting only another 100 fps or so. I can't see a problem caused by jacketed bullets protruding into the case. You could make a nearly QT by putting a 125 gn RN into a .220 Swift and throating it so the bullet doesn't eat into case capacity. QL suggests you'd be within 100 fps. Getting the bullet made and the correct twist is the trick.

This is mostly theoretical stuff, I'm not even old enough to legally own a gun yet, just stuff to look into when I'm older. If I had the 5.5" twist, what's the lightest bullet weight I could shoot??

Tyler,

IMO.. I would stick to some of the smaller based cases, that have a good variety of powders to work with. This doesn't mean you can't fly long bullets fast, just that when you get to the bigger cases, smaller necks, and longer bullets, the variety of supplies for that particular round goes down quick. Also the fact that the barrels need work a LOT sooner.

There was mentioned Kirby Allen and his wildcats, as well as Richard Graves and his bullets, Both are great and designed for hunting. Not shooting PD's or Match shooting.

I have one of Kirby's creations in the .270 AM, and am shooting both the 169.5, and the 195gr Wildcat's. I am getting velocities in the mid to high 3200's for the 169.5, and mid to high 3100 for the 195's. The 169 load isn't running up to what it could be, I simply settled there as it shot well.

Here are a couple of pic's of our 500yds target using these combo's,

169.5gr Wildcat @ 3260 FPS


195gr Wildcat @ 3158 FPS


Together they make a truely awesome combination, capable of taking anything up to Elk class game out to some pretty decent ranges.