Anyone ever heard of a 303 Brit necked up to 45 cal? Have a 45/410 barrel that shoots 45 LC really bad. was thinking that a longer case might help as the bullet has a couple of inches of freebore before it contacts the rifling. Not Wanting magnum performance just a fun pumkin chunker to play with

You need to look at the dimensions of both cases and you should get your answer...A 45 LC is a straight walled case with a base and neck of 0.480" dia.

A 303 Brit has a base at 0.460". You could expand the neck large enough to accept a 45 cal bullet but you would have a very strange looking base if you fired it in the LC chamber and I wouldn't advise it in any manor, shape or form.

A closer fit would be the 444 Marlin necked up to 45 cal and trimmed to fit the chamber...BUT...again I wouldn't advise it unless you are an expert gunsmith and by the question you aren't anywhere near mucking around with what you are thinking about.

You might look at some of the other 45 and 50 cal "old timer" straight walled BP cases and find one that could be used, but what you are thinking about could get you or someone else hurt real bad.

You didn't say which receiver you had either.

I did somemore checking....a 460 S$W case is a good 1/2 inch longer, the same base and neck dimensions as the LC and would help...BUT FOR GOT SAKES DON'T FIRE A FACTORY 460 S$W MAG ROUND IN YOU RIFLE.


What you are contemplating is fraught with dangerous implications so don't be an SFB...think about it for a while...you will never get much accuracy from that barrel no matter what you do because the barrel is inherently inaccurate and the combo was never intended to be anything but a 20 yard noise maker/scam.

You could maybe do a 45-70 and have custom dies made that sized the case to hold a .452 bullet? Or any of the 45-70 based cartridges for that matter.

Heck, that's a pretty good idea!

If George is talking about the "normal" 45 LC/410 barrels that I'm familiar with...TC's and such...a 45-70 won't work unles you can somehow squeeze the base down to 0.480" nominal and turn the rim down to 0.512" or so. Besides the problem is with the smooth bore and 3" chamber...But if you want to spend a ton of money making a sows ear out of a silk purse, go right ahead.

Why would it need to be the 45 colt sized rim? You can get a 45-70 in the TC. But it would need a custom reamer, not fun.

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Anyone ever heard of a 303 Brit necked up to 45 cal?

I don't have my copy of Cartridges of the World to hand, but I don't think there was a 303 necked-up to 45 although there may have been cartridges with the same rim size and base size (but not the same rim thickness) probably by Purdey.

However what there definitely was was the 303 case expanded to .410" for the .410" Musket version of the SMLE used in India as a "guard" rifle in some roles.

This was loaded with shot however and not a single solid slug I understand.

You might be able to use a George Mann .458 X 2" Ultra mag. in your Enfield. Great plinker! roger

Not to make too small a point...but I think some of you need to re-read the original question.."a 45/410 barrel"...nothing about a rechamber...just a longer case. I know you can get a TC 45-70 barrel...that was not the question, and it doesn't even begin to be a solution with any kind of sense.

Not sure where the 45-303 reference came from or why, the case base is just too small. That's why I suggested the 460 S&W which is basically a "magnumized" 45 LC...the case OD dimensions are the same...the case lengths are 1.285" vs 1.85". and...again...the problem with the accuracy is a function of the bullet jump and the smooth bore and no amount of longer case will correct that. None of the combo guns I have ever delt with shot worth a sh** with either 45 LC or shotshell.

I used a 45-70 expander from a Lyman set to expand the neck on a 444 Marlin and a 303 Brit, just for my edification and because I'm using the 444 Marlin case on another project. The OD of the 303 expanded section measured 0.472", 0.455" ID and the base measured 0.449" OD. The 444 Marlin measured 0.474" OD, 0.455" ID and base of 0.463" OD. A fired case OD would be even larger at 0.480". The 444 Marlin would come the closest, but if used would still have an expansion bump near the bottom. That's assuming whoever wanted to do this project also wanted to pay the price of a set of custom dies, a long case forming and fire forming process and that's assuming the barrel chamber is close to 0.480" and not larger and what would you have after all the work??? I doubt very seriously if the accuracy increase....if any...would be worth the cost or trouble. Anyone with half a mind or any understanding of what is being asked can see the problem I should think.

444 Marlin on right...303 Brit on left...Get the picture???

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

Forgot to add...I'm doing a Isapore 2A1 conversion to 375 JDJ right now. Any number of cut down '06 based cases, 8mm x57 and the iterations, 444 M, 450 M, and almost any magnum case cut 2 to 2.25" will work with a bit of futzing on the original 308 magazine and a COAL of 3.050" max. I couldn't get a new issue 303 10 round mag to work tho' as the front and rear lips were shorter and the larger dia rims cause a big ruckus, and the mag shapes were different.

375 cal seems to be about max for easy mag work as a staggered mag as getting over the 375 size causes the cases to jump out of the mag when the lips are bent to handle the OD of the larger sized bullet.

Due to the ease with which the 444 M, 450 M and cut down mag cases worked I wouldn't even try to do a 45-70 cased conversion. I also tried the 0.553" "fat mag" WSM cases but ran into problems quickly with the cases wedging in the mag, expanding it and making it almost impossible to remove, plus not feeding due to being too short and the lips and guide rails in the wrong location. Converting the mag to single stack ala 45-70 Gibbs rifles and using the above mentioned cases also would make converting to 41, 44 and 45 calibers easier and I think they would be easier to get to feed. I haven't tried any cal over 45 yet and haven't made a single stack mag yet.

The 375 JDJ should get a 300 gr bullet going close to 2000 f/s in a 22" barrel. I'm thinking hard of buying another Isapore and doing something in the 416 to 45 cal just for kicks.

A mate of mine made cast bullets for his 12ga. He usd a wrench socket for the mold and screwed a thick wad onto the base of the slug and presto. Why not something similar? It was just a home made shotgun slug. The straight flutes swaged to fit the bore on firing and if I remember correctly, accuracy was not too shabby. If such a slug were seated by just the wad, jump would be reducd. Just a thought.

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.... the problem is with the smooth bore and 3" chamber ....

George_Mann did say rifling?

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... the bullet has a couple of inches of freebore before it contacts the rifling.

That might work or measure the bore and find a cast lead bullet that fits tighter, use a round ball or mini ball with a thin skirt. Lots of things "could" be done, but I think for the 45/410 application, it's just slapping the monkey. Some things just aren't worth the sweat.

I have a friend that just bought a "Judge" and brought it over last Tuesday to show me and use my range. The 410 shot and slugs didn't do too bad from 5 to 10 yards, nice 8" pattern. Anyone or anythin hit at that range would get real sick real quick, and the 45 LC worked well enough to keep the rounds inside a pie plate. I wouldn't buy one for defence but wouldn't throw it away if that's all that was available...I like my 45 ACP's and "special" loads...and now he sleeps with that thing. I'm now trying to relieve him of his 44 special "Bulldog" which to my way of thinking is a much better proposition for dealing with problems.

quote:

.... just a fun pumkin chunker to play with.

I know I would have heaps of fun trying to make it work. Every time I went to this mate, he would come out with a big grin and show me his progress with is home made slugs and his paper groups.

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Originally posted by 303Guy:
A mate of mine made cast bullets for his 12ga. He usd a wrench socket for the mold and screwed a thick wad onto the base of the slug and presto.

Hmmmm, now that sounds interesting!!
Any idea what size socket he used, I'd like to check this out?
Steve

Most of the slugs I reload run 0.725" OD plus or minus a bit. That's 18.50mm so an 18MM socket might work. A lot of work, but if you can't get them in NZ it would be worth it.

A 12 ga double barrel with heavy loaded slugs (my favorite close in tool) or a slug and a tri ball from James Gates is an awesome proposition to contemplate or to be on the wrong end of. We're talking 73 caliber...even bigger than some of the early elephant whackers and penetration to match. Not many aminals can stand up to that if the right slugs are used.

I have no recollection what he used but I do recall him squeezing them up in a bench vice. I think he sized them to actualy swage in the bore.