Has anybody tried this? It can't be any worse than a 308 or 358, but should bridge the gap. What type of ballistics could be achieved in a Model Seven, 2.81" magazine, with a 20-22" barrel?? Looks like a good cartridge, for deer, bear, and moose out to 200 yards or so. Bullets from 160-215 grs. would probably be best, maybe a 225 gr. for bigger stuff at closer range. What about forming cases? Would it be similar to necking up 30-06 to make 338-06?, or would 358 Win sized down work better?

Thanks in advance.

I've never had one, but it'll push the 210 gr partition 2500 fps, maybe a tad more. With a 200 yd zero, that makes it an honest 250 yd round, same as the 358 w/ 225's @ 2500 fps. I think that bullet at that speed is the perfect combination for the 338-08. I have at least one article on the round from the late 70's or early 80's, I think it was in Rifle Magazine, will have to dig for it.

I'd rather use 358 win brass sized down, but if it isn't readily available, .308's will neck up quite nicely. I necked many an -06 up the a 35 whelen, only going up to 33 will be a breeze.

338-08 has been done many times -- you can get reloading dies from a couple different places.

It's almost what I want. I want something to hunt Roosevelt Elk in the rainforests of the Olympic Penninsula. That means short range, short gun, big animal. I could just use a 308 Win, but a little bit bigger and tougher bullet would be nice. I'd like to see 2500fps with a 225gr .338 bullet from no more than a 22" barrel. That'll give me 2200fps at 200yds, and allow me to sight in at +1" at 100yds while being less tha -4" at 200yds -- nice for quick, close shooting with iron sights. That kind of velocity means that you're getting similar terminal ballistics to a 340 Weatherby at 300 to 500yds -- i.e., entirely adequate penetration for elk.

225gr at 2500fps is either right at or just beyond the capabilities of the 338-08, so I've worked out an improved wildcat that I'm calling the 338 Queets after the Game Management Unit, river, and Native American tribe in the area that I want to use this cartridge. It starts from a 308 Win or 358 Win case necked to 338, but shortens up the overly long neck that results to .338" and changes the shoulder angle to 30 degrees. That should reduce brass flow, and it also moves the shoulder forward from 1.560" to 1.603", resulting in a gain of a couple of grains of water capacity. That should be enough to push a 225gr bullet over 2500fps from a 22" bbl, and maybe even a 20" bbl.

I might get a chance to build a 338 Queets rifle this summer, but for now it's just a pleasant thought while sitting by the fire on a rainy evening.

Sounds like a great round. The 358 Win has a strong following. Has a good reputation for killing better than the numbers should suggest. I would think necking down to .338 would give a bit more range, and some more choices of bullets in the lighter weights.

So it looks like a 338-08 is capable of 3000 ft-lbs at the muzzle? Say a 22" tube.

What do you boyz expect could be had for speed with the 180 Noz?

Thanks

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

There is another wildcat that is much better for this application. It is the 338/284. It has the same case volume as the 338/06 and works through the same actions as the 308. I have one built on a short action mauser and another one on a rem 700 ADL. It gives the option of 338/06 performance or can be cut back to 338/308 levels. I personally think that the former is the ideal for this bore, but to each his own. This wildcat is not wildly popular but has been around a long time and dies are readily available as a stock item. It is a much simpler solution to an upgraded 308 case, I believe. It is just a simple neckup.

As to forming brass, a method I have used is to simply fireform the neck in the new chamber. I use regular 284 brass and fireform to the 338/284 chamber. When doing this I anneal before and after the forming. Necking up sometimes requires quite a bit of effort and annealing beforehand makes it easier, but you often loose several cases. By annealing and fireforming, there is less danger of loosing brass. Any necked up or down case should be annealed after forming to give consistent bullet grip and avoid split necks.

338x308 zt 60k, 21" barrel 225gr wood
2400+

338 "wsm"
2700+

338x284
2600+

jeffe

I predict that when Winchester releases the 338 WSM it will be the hottest selling of all the WSM rounds. Reminton truly missed the boat by not offering that new carbine of their's in a 338 RSUM. Actually the 338-08 and 338-284 (better) just make me want to push the envelope to obtain 338 WM performance in a short action.

Tod,

Since you specified a Remmy Model 7, why not wildcat a .338 on the RSAUM brass? The Rem variety of short mag fits the M7 magazine better than the longer Winch version, and it would have plenty of snort, even from a 21 or 22" barrel.

Actually, when I started measuring the Win and Rem short mags with a caliper, I was amazed that 2 unrelated sets of engineers would produce cartridges so much alike. Head diameters within .005, shoulder diameters almost equal, the only real difference is length and 5 degrees of shoulder angle.

BigIron

[ 03-14-2003, 08:56: Message edited by: BigIron ]

Honestly, your intended use is a perfect fit for a .358. It almost sounds like Winchester's original press release. I love wildcats and love fooling with them, but in this case, a .358 may be easier and much more saleable if you get tired of it.

If you like the .338-size bullets why not think about taking the 350 RemMag and necking it down to .338 and as you are going to be reloading for whatever you do you can load it to the level you want.

I have always thought there is a strong reason for the .338/06 class cartridges. They seem to be absolutely an optimum fit of case to bore size. It has been noted many times in print that a 338/06 will generally outperform either a 30/06 or a 35 whelen. By this I mean that the 338/06 will launch a given weight bullet more energy than either of the other two. This is an anomaly in that ususally energy goes up with bore size due to a decrease in sectional density at a given weight. I would suppose that this is because the whelen is approaching having an inadequate powder volume with modern powders. I suspect that is true also of the 338/08. For this reason, if going small, I would stick with the 358, if going 338, I would go with the 338/284.

Art,
Not to start a fight, but I thought the 338x284 and the 338/06 would be within 2 grains of water, and have the same profile for powders? The "sole" advantage being that the 284 based would fit in the short actions.

just my thought, and I am NOT trying to start a fight.
jeffe

I had a .338-08 AI done about 9 months ago on a short SAKO action. The barrel is a 22" Douglas w/a 1-12" twist. Bullets > 210 grs are too big for this case, so I went with a slower (but still adequate) twist. My tests to date indicate 2700 fps is about max for 180 gr BT's, 2600 fps for 200 gr BT's and 2500 fps for the 210 gr Partition. I have some reloading data and also Ken Water's article on the .338-08 if anyone wants it. If you're going to do it, may I suggest Hornady dies over Redding. The price difference was about $45 and Hornady will get them to you much quicker. I used this gun for deer hunting in Wisconsin last November with rather predictable results. I was shooting 180 gr BT's at close to 2,700 fps muzzle velocity. I shot two deer at very close range, 30 yds and 20 yds. Both were broadside lung shots and both bullets exited the opposite side. It had power to spare to say the least!

Jeffeosso

I think we are in total agreement. The cartridges are duplicates. My personal favorite is the 338/284, since even in a full length action, you have more latitude in bullet seating, especially if you cut a custom throat. I was really using a generic reference in the post. The two cartridges in my mind are completely interchangeable. THis post, however, did address short actions which rules out the 338/06.

I think the last post points out one shortcoming of the 338/08. You are pretty much limited to ligher bullets. While that might fit your present plans, there is no advantage of the 338/08 over the 338/284(both essentially the same length) except for a very small efficiency gain at equivalent performance levels (downloaded 338/284) and you are giving up the option of heavy bullets for future use.

I have certainly enjoyed reading the posts concerning the 338/08 and its velocities. I have recently embarked on a wildcat that may be of benefit to those that think like I do. But then again, maybe not. Give me your thoughts, pro & con, on the following wildcat-----

338x57 MAI - (Mauser Ackley Improved)

With all the surplus Mauser actions available and the many new powders that have come on the market, this seemed like a good way to go. First goal was an effective round that would feed thru a '98 action with little or no modifications. Second goal was a relatively powerfull and EFFICIENT wildcat cartridge that would give a good velocity/powder ratio. I have the reamer on hand, a good VZ24 action, custom dies and now just waiting on the barrel to arrive. This is the beginning stage of the wildcat development so any observations on powder selection would be appreciated. My initial thoughts on powder selection would be to use AA 4350 and V V 150 for the begining tests with the 200gr Nosler Ballistic Silver Tips.

Constructive ideas and suggestions would be appreciated.

Ol' John

About two years ago I had a 338-308 made from a 308 Winchester Model 88, I had it rebored and rechambered after an article I read in a old June 1974 Rifles Magazine. Loads were taken from three different articles I read along with Ken Walters Pet Loads
Brass is a piece of cake to make, one pass with 308 Federal Match Brass through my RCBS dies, then either 36 gr. of Reloader 7 or 47gr of IMR4895 behind a 225gr. Hornady Interlock or Nosler Partition and you got a great deer/bear round. Velocity is around2, 350 fps.
If I want a little more zip I use a 200gr. Combined Technologies Ballistic Tip to get almost 2,700 fps.
I also shoot a 308 (another Model 88) and a 358 (Savage 99). The 338-308 comes very close to the 358 but gets just a little bit better range, and falls short of the 308 range but gets better ft. lbs.
It's a neat wild cat, sure there are bigger and better round, but who cares, if a 338-308 floats your boat, do it.

I'm looking for dies for the 338-08 and have found them at C-H for $69.00, Hornady will make a set for $90.00. RCBS put me on hold and lost the call (I'll call them again later).

Anyone know of any other places to check?