The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Wildcats And Their Development Die for making .240 Wby brassGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I had one of the belting dies from C&H. For whatever reason I decided I needed to build a 400/375 Nitro Belted on a 1936 mex mauser I had. I had some factory Kynoch rounds, some Bertram brass and the ones I made with the belting die. The reamer was cut and work perfectly with all three plus some 240 wthby brass I expanded too. The 240 brass comes out a triffle short. The ones I made were the strongest of the bunch. The 240 wthby dies I have are an old set of Pacific, they will belt a 25-06 case, but like ArtS it leaves a ring of "welded" brass on the outside of the belt that needs to be turned or filed off. The C&H die does not do that, and leaves a nice clean belt. As I told AC, the only thing is, you pound the case out with a rod. On punched primer flasholes you have to ream the inside of the hole as it gets peened back over driving the case out. ArtS if you want to see a case made with the C&H die I can send you one. | |||
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AC Here's a present for you.  I had been thinking about your shortened round, and I realized that the 308 family was almost exactly the same length and exactly the same shoulder diameter. I took a Hornady Custom and put the belt on using the Redding die followed by the FL sizer. Surprisingly, I was able to do both in one stroke. I then gradually stepped up the case, ran it through the 416/284 neck sizer I made and seated a SPeer 350. I have shown the case in the middle, flanked by the parent 243 and the 416/284 I am working on. The 243 is 2.035 inches long by spec, althought the actual case is a touch shorter. The 416 case came out at 1.975". It took a lot of neck metal to expand that much, which shortened the case. It also thinned the neck from .015 to .01. You can see the section of the original shoulder, because it apparently didn't stretch and thin nearly as much. Fire forming will probably get rid of this, and be a better method of case prep. It would likely even up the brass thinning and yield a slightly longer case. Starting with base formed and fireformed 358 winchester brass would probably make perfect brass with no more work. You can see in the picture how much larger the 284 case is than the shortened 240. I found some other data where Michael Petrov was getting around 2500 fps with the 400 Whelen with H4895. That being the case, I suspect you are on target with 2000 fps and 60K psi. After fooling with the brass, I guess I still favor the 284 design. I am just more comfortable with a round that can operate anywhere from 1800 to 2500 fps with 95-100% loading density at around 45K when choosing an appropriate powder. I don't think the case forming issue should affect the decision, since you can always just cut factory 240 cases off and resize. Likewise, fireforming the 284 based case is trivial. After seating the bullets, I am a little hesitant about the full length 240 design. Given the small diameter of the case and the length, I think you would be forced to seat the bullets deep to cycle through an 06 action. For a 2300 fps class cartridge, I think the 284 base has a real edge. | |||
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Thanks Art! If I can get the 2000 fps ballistics I want with a short case, I'm perfectly willing to use pretty much any case to belt. I'll try making some .240 Wby cases and shortening them first, probably. On the other hand, I have a .358 Winchester, so I could try making cases from that. Better yet, I also have a .375 NE rimless (9.5x57), so I could also try belting cases from that. Necking them up to .416" would be a lark and might shorten them just enough to work fine with only enough trimming to square the end of the case to the base. It would leave very close to normal neck thickness....probably about .011" or .012" instead of the parent .0155". It should also feed great through either a Springfield (.30-06) action or still better, a Mauser (8x57) action. Mickey - If you are still reading this, maybe you could run us a QL drawing/predicted ballistics and loads page based on the opened up 8x57 pushing that 350 Speer with 60,000 piezzo psi? Please? | |||
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I had a 9.5 Mannlicher too that I won in the raffle from JudgeG. Remembering what the brass cost, the 240 Weatherby brass might look like a great deal! | |||
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I don't have to buy brass for mine. I got LOTS OF IT 40 years ago at auctions in England for 1 cent a round or less. (Mine is the Mauser version, not the Mannlicher, although there is always some debate as to whether the two (9.5x56 Mannlicher and 9.5x57 Mauser) are identical or not. | |||
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I tried one other thing today while I was chambering another rifle(the 338-06 I bushed the Weatherby barel into). I had a 3" stub of 416 barrel in the scrap pile that included the muzzle jug(?) which I had cut off another barrel. I chucked it in the lathe, ran a 416 Clymer N&T into it for 1.93+inches, chucked a 1/2" end mill in the tail stock and ran it in for .118 inches and, voila!, new chamber, very close to what is needed for a M98. I cut off and squared a Norma 240 case at the shoulder junction (close enough to try) squared it up and stuck it in the chamber. As I suspected, it didn't go all the way in, but only liked about .1". I polished the rear quarter inch of the chamber out about .003, and it fit like a glove. No chamber reamer needed. With a bullet fitted, it still chambered, and was really snug. The swell below the bullet you saw in the other photo is real, as it appears on the cut off 240 case after neck sizing. The case is simply smaller than the shoulder below the bullet until it gets near the base. Fireforming will take care of this. The wall thickness at the neck is around .014". I think it would be ideal to cut off the 240 to length, fireform and neck size, then neck turn about .002 inches off the front inch of the case, or as far down as the neck sizer goes. This should give a great fit and long case life. Doing it this way yields a base slightly smaller in diameter than the drawing you have shows, and you would likely want to have a custom reamer made up to give a slight taper if you are going to work at 60K, but for playing with the round and trying different chamber lengths, it should work fine. The final reamer could then be made and run into the chamber for the final cut. | |||
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I figure that for a chamber that short, with no shoulder, I can just use about a 3/8" drill and a boring bar to chamber with. See no need yet for a reamer. That's one of the reasons I wanted a shoulderless straight-taper case. A reamer can wait until the final length is firmly established. | |||
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AC Just a guess, but you maybe won't need the 3/8" drill for this job?? | |||
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After a bit of thought.....the forming of the belt on 30-06 type or cylinder brass has little value as it decreases the case volume to make a .416 cartridge.....Ramrod's rendition of a .411 by forming a small shoulder up front has no such loss of capacity.....even though he is forced to reduce the bullet diameter a bit and the 416 caliber has a lot more bullets available than the 411 caliber but still I don't see great value in the 416 over the 411.....some will disagree... The only real value is to reproduce 240 Wby brass from cheap '06 brass......and to most of us that didn't succumb to the temptation to buy a .240 Wby, it has no value at all. It's always fun to have one's idea center peaked and this thread certainly has done that but if one likes to "sleep on it" a while before he runs out and plunks down his hard earned cash.....he probably won't invest in this "thingy".....IMO one would be much better invested by starting with 376 Steyr brass. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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AC, Good post.....and BTW I just happen to have a spare 416 barrel You're so very right.....we all see it a little differently..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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If AC should have slept on his idea then I should have been Rip VanWinkle on mine. Building a 400/375 Belted Nitro!!! Buit I love the rifle and it's truly mine and I dont care what everyone else thinks.  | |||
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Speaking of good posts, Vapo...you took mine exactly the way I meant it, I think...friendly. But speaking of good posts, which I DO intend to do here... I just read the Nebraska Game Commission's blurb about the youth hunting program they have opened up called "Start a Nebraska Hunting Tradition". In it they announce that non-resident youth can buy big game & turkey license and tags for $5, no matter where they are from. Do you know anything about that? I think that is one of the sharpest ideas I have ever seen if indeed I understood it correctly. If you have any knowledge of such a program I think you might want to check the AR files and if it has not already been posted here, announce it to everyone in more detail. We all need to build more hunters and shooters! I already thought Nebraska is one of the most beautiful places to hunt that I've ever been to...especially the sand hills. If I understand this Start a Tradition concept right, it has lept head and shoulders ahead of any other State I am yet aware of. | |||
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I wish I could take some credit for this but I can't and can't say that I was even aware of this. I fully agree with this as (especially with turkeys) we are over run with game and with turkeys residents are allowed seven annually...yes that's right....SEVEN! I personally made a gift of new shotguns to two locaL youngsters to encourage hunting and am a member of pheasants forever and assist in the annual youth mentor hunt. Taking kids hunting is a more than a fun time....it's a responsibility and many folks in Nebraska share that creed.....it's not at all a bad idea! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Not trying to hijack your thread but I picked up approx. 180 loaded rounds of 240 Wby. loaded w/Nosler bullets in an estate sale. I do not know the heritage of this ammo but I would think that after pulling the bullets + reusing the primed cases that they ought to be worth @ least $150.00.That is my asking price.Sorry,I would have placed this on the sales forum but this posting was too good to pass up. I hope no one is offended. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Wildcats And Their Development Die for making .240 Wby brass
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