The Russians do indeed have a 9x39 cartridge, dubbed "Grom" (meaning Thunder) used in a specialized rifle, the VSS "Vintorez" and the VSK-94. While terminal ballistics are impressive, the accuracy is not all that (complaints from SpetNaz).

I developed a similar round a few years ago for this exact same reason, dubbed it the 358 CQB. I was using 30 Rem brass as I didn't want to duplicate the Grom, but found the design not to my liking. I went back and redid it in 338 caliber and left it at that.

A gentleman in California had a similar idea and uses the 10mm Auto MAGNUM case from Starline necked to 35 caliber. If I can find his website, I will share, he was getting great results from a 10" Contender. Here it is http://daplane.com/wildcat.htm

In terms of magazines, the PPC is chambered in the AR-15 with good results. Due to the lesser taper, it can function in the 7.62x39 magazines for this rifle. You will find, however, that the x39 case will not work (well) in the Mini-14 mags. I would suggest using the PPC as a starting point and going with it.

The Carcano brass will not be much help - I have the Frontier stuff and it gets THICK at that length, and the original Carcano was rated for MUCH lower pressure than the AK, so if the brass is similarly lower rated, you will lose a lot of potential.

You might check with Tony Rumore at Tromix, he can rebarrel Mini's to some novel calibers and could help you

In a nutshell:
Great idea, several folks have gone this route before you
Go with the PPC case

Wouldn't this cartridge be similar in ballistics to the 351 Winchester Self-Loading?
35W

Now there is something, and looking at the base dimentions, it looks like a version that headspaces off the mouth could be made from .223 (or .222 Rem Mag) brass... and there are a lot of guns to make that with.

I will wait until I finish my other projects and can refinance the house, but what do you say about an H&K 53 in .351 Winchester Self Loading Rimless? or .357 Maximum Rimless, for that matter? Or should we have something that at least has a shoulder?

This is really all coming back around to the good 'ole .357 Bain & Davis based on a necked-down .44 Mag case with no other change. I'd bet Marty's refinance fees that someone already does this on a Ruger .44 carbine.

why not use the .45 winchester magnum case necked down
to .358?

Well, good question. It probably boils down to whether someone already has a donor gun in mind or not. The M1 carbines in 45 Mag were a great success (except the ones that blew up ). Don't know why a 357/45 Mag wouldn't work much better with the shoulder to headspace.

The guy out in Odessa Texas that makes Mini-14's accurate will convert your mini-30 to .358 x 39 improved. It is about 35 remington in power or a little better. He has a web site but I don't remember it. Search for Accuracy Rifle Systems (I think).

Some of you boys may have misintrepreted my question. First thing I wonder about is "why", but therein lies the course of my thinking once that's answered. Lemme ponder this a bit. Be back in a few.

After some minor research I've decided that you're going to need to be commited to this to pull it off. Or be commited after the fact.

Primary problem I see is "platform", or lack thereof. It is unfortunate that the auto receiver groups are so inflexible in regards to OAL. It is also unfortunate that Remington is not still making the Model 8 or 81, then you could buy one in .35 Rem and be done with it.

Couple of odd stray thoughs here, maybe ricochettes would be a better word.

If you use the Deerfield you will likely have OAL restrictions that will give small benefit to the finished project, this assumes the .35 bore. Even with a custom mag you will likely fall well short of a desirable OAL. So if you pump up the pressure the next thing you gotta ask yourself, will the gun take it?? Not with me behind the buttplate. I don't think you'll make much more than a novelty with that platform. Maybe the .357 Bain-Davis, but you're back down to light bullets..

You mentioned headspacing on the case mouth in comparison with the shoulder. FWIW I don't like that idea. Rims, shoulders, or even belts, but if you want some ooomph, give yourself something to headspace on. You would be depending too much on a very precise relation between neck wall thickness and chamber dimension. Not good with high pressures and high energy bolt cycles.

Perhaps the suggestion above regarding the Mini-30 conversion is the most direct path. The mag sould have to lose it's bannana look since the .35-7.62x39 would have a rather "improved" look about it. Not familiar with that conversion but it sounds easier than trying to jimmy 2 pounds of sugar into a 1 pound bag. Unless you're willing to cut and lengthen/shorten the action of your choice. I suspect that may be the point where being commited should be considered. Perhaps a "camp carbine" style based on a .Colt 1911 action?

Don't know if this works for you or not, but Frank Barnes and a few others have toyed with a 1.5" version of the .308 Win. case, and it's small work to make it a ".358 Short". I'd guess you could squeeze 2000 fps out of a 200 gr. bullet with that one if you had the right action.

Speaking of actions, the Winchester Model 100 might be good for this one. Or any good bolt gun if you like the Scout concept. One of the things apparent with most of the sporting style autoloaders is limited mag capacity, but my take is that you're looking for a many shooter?

I don't think it's silly at all, just a big challenge. Hey, I'm the nut that shoots 300 gr paper patch out of a SS 77/44 with a red dot sight. It's my Po Boy's buffalo gun. My Ex said I was very conflicted. When I offered to paper patch her she left me in peace.

Good luck in any case, er, with any case of your choosing.

Wow, I am going to read this thread as long as people but my curiosity is satisfied and I think I am thru (thought I realize the foolishness of saying as much). I have just ordered a mould for the 20ga project and have sent a couple of cases off to CH4D to have a sizing die made. Afterwards, I may try getting a reamer made for another goofball idea, the 45 Powell.

Thanks for the comments. I did not expect this much activity aside from a few people (I almost PM'ed Marty to get his opinion) saying either "bad idea, it will never work," and why; or "yes, so-and-so did this a few years back and it's called the '____________'." This is an exciting community to be a part of.

I have to admit to a certain facination with cartridges like this. It seems to me that the important question to answer first is which platform you'll be working with. I could see a 357/44 BD on a 77/44 for an itty bitty bolt gun. If you want/need more horsepower, you could do a 35 WSSM in the Winchester super short action. But if it has to be an auto, I think by far the easiest way would be a 35 PPC/X39 improved.

Let us know how it goes.

Gabe