These two cases are very close in demensions(capacity wise too I suppose) so why wouldn't steyr just use the .284 case instead of creating a new case? The steyr has a very shallow shoulder; did they not like the steep shoulder of the .284?

COL is .3" longer.

Yeah, but couldn't a .375-284 be made with the same COL?

The .376 Steyr is not a new case. It is the 9.3x64 Brenneke case cut to 60mm and necked up to .375.

Kristofer

leo-too,

quote:

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These two cases are very close in demensions(capacity wise too I suppose) so why wouldn't steyr just use the .284 case instead of creating a new case? The steyr has a very shallow shoulder; did they not like the steep shoulder of the .284?

---

The .376 was based on the 9.3X64, not a new case. The shoulder angle gives much smoother feeding than a sharp angled case and still deliver the kind of power they were looking for.

Leo-Too,

I shoot a .376 Steyr, and have corresponded with the Steyr engineer in Europe who was involved in the development of the cartridge. I expect he didn't give the .284 Win case a thought, although they did start from a .350 Remington point of view. They wanted the cartridge to fit in their standard length SBS action.

The engineer was also contemplating a line of cartridges based on the case, along the lines of the M-S cartridges of the last century. We haven't seen that yet, obviously. I have seen a drawing of a .416 cartridge Steyr thought about doing.

I wrote about the .376 Steyr cartridge and I hunt I did with it for African Hunter.

http://www.african-hunter.com/eland,_shangaan_hunters_and_the__376_steyr.htm

jim dodd

How promising di the 416 version Steyr look? Do you think it would be better than say a 416wsm?

CoonDawg, I think they would be very similar but I don't know as I'd want to go bigger than the .376 in a 20" barrel. A .416 I'd probably want to go 24".

They would've had to retain the original .284 shoulder angle which is what's usually done when a case is necked up or down. Is there something about the scout rifle that would require that very shallow 15 degree shoulder angle to be a good DG rifle? I'm very impressed with the vel. and energy they can get out of that moderate sized case.

leo,

quote:

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They would've had to retain the original .284 shoulder angle which is what's usually done when a case is necked up or down. Is there something about the scout rifle that would require that very shallow 15 degree shoulder angle to be a good DG rifle? I'm very impressed with the vel. and energy they can get out of that moderate sized case.

---

There's nothing specific about the scout that would require the shallow shoulder except as I said earlier this is a 9.3X64 brenneke necked up to .375 and as another poster said it was trimmed to 60mm. The last thing you want on a DGR is a sharp shouldered case, smooth feeding is what you want. Just my own opinion but while I like the idea of a beltless magnum such as the .404 case, I think the most overlooked and underrated case is the 9.3X64. Steyr stopped making the Scout in .376 and now just offer it in the Pro Hunter model. It has 20" barrel instead of 19", extra weight which is good for that calibre, adjustable LOP. To me it was one of the better thought out rifle, calibre combinations that I've seen in a while.

CoonDawg,

Steyr thought the .416 Steyr didn't offer exciting enough ballistics to sell in the market.

I have seen a .416 WSM, actually a .416 HEMAG -- Winchester copied the HEMAG cartridges with their .300 WSM. So your .416 WSM is already out there at least as a wildcat. One of the AR posters has one and likes it.

I spent some time with HEMAG's .450 which you could call a .450 WSM. I was thinking about a "minimalist .450", but I decided the idea didn't make sense. For rifles firing 500 grain bullets at over 2,150 fps MV you need adequate weight anyway. Chambering a short-action cartridge in such a rifle doesn't produce a shorter, fast-handling rifle, so why do it? Other than "just because", of course.

jim

Why not a 375 on a standard legnt action? Use the cheap and availible RUM case, cut to 2.5" and neck down. Maybe use 375RUM loading dies and just cut them off and use the 375RUM reamer and only run it in 2.5"??? It looks like the base would be about 4 thou smaller. Could you size the base of the case down that much?

Somebody send me a take off 375 barrel and I'll do one on my VZ24 and let you know how it went.
Or a rem barrel and I'll take the barrel off my Turk 8mm.

Why not a 375 on a standard legnt action? Use the cheap and availible RUM case, cut to 2.5" and neck down.

Great round. Some folks call it a 375 Dakota.

Don Allen once told me he thought it was quite pssibly the best round in his lineup of cartridges based on the shortened 404 case.

As I recall the .284 has a similar case capacity to that of the 30/06 therefore I would expect any wildcat cartridges based on the 376 Steyr would out perform similiar designs based on the 284 case ....caliber by caliber. The WSM or the SAUM cases should out perform the 284 case just like the 300WSM outperforms the 30/06.....I would think the Steyr and WSM/SAUM would be very close. The only problem I have with the Steyr case is that it seems to be a "tweener"....to long for a short action and not long enough to really require a regular size action. I believe the charm is in the rifle...to those who are attracted to the look.

Doesn't the Dakota case use a fullsize rim as opposed to the RUM case that has a rebated rim? .545 vs .534 so the RUM case could fit a bolt with a belted mag size case head. Also isn't there supposed to be a slight difference in base diameter? .545 for the Dakota vs .550 for the RUM. Or is .005 not enough to worry about? I've also heard that the Dakota brass isn't the best? Noslers listed loads for the 330 Dakota and 338win shows the win has a slight edge in velocity. Is this from thicker brass in the Dakota?
?????????????????

What about a 416-284 McPherson?

CoonDawg....this is for you.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/wildcat_0612/

Let me add this one also.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5051

Let me add that Mic is a very meticulous reloader and does things that while completely safe for him and his well-cared for equipment, probably should not be tried by less experienced or careful reloaders.

[ 09-11-2003, 06:36: Message edited by: DB Bill ]

Bill you are a weath of info.

Thanks all for the useful info on the .376 Steyr, one of which I have in the Hunter configuration.

Actually I have a quite a lot of little medium bore and large bore rifles such as the .376, so let me throw this one out to you...I am currently setting about building a pair of MRC actions into a 10.75 WSM and a 9.3 WSM. both pretty much standard WSMs necked up...no drastic shoulder changes.

Do you fellas have any comments/info on that pair?

AC

Why pick rounds that have limited choices in bullets.....to me a 416 WSM would be fun as would a 375 WSM...I would guess a 416 WSM would do 2200 to 2250 fps with a 400gr bullet and a 375 WSM would do about 2350 to 2400 fps with a 300gr bullet.

Why pick rounds that have limited bullet choices?

A few reasons...

1. I tend to find a bullet that works well in a particular cartridge and stick with it. I don't need a lot of different makes/weights/designs of bullets. Matter of fact, I find a bunch of choices kinda counter-productive.

I already have well over 100 rifles...have enough trouble keeping track of what works well in which as it is. And I like to know they are sighted in correctly when I pick them out of the vault. Not having to keep track of which bullet they might be sighted for is sometimes a real advantage.

2. I already have lots of bullets (numbers, not varieties) in those sizes.

3. I have an irrational lack of affinity for the .416 bore size. I'm sure it is a great size and works well. However, when I saw Remington come out with the .416 Rem Mag which appears to be an exact clone of the much older .404 Barnes Supreme except bore size is increased from .411" to .416", for some reason it struck me negatively. Perhaps because I thought maybe they could have at least given a nod of the head or tip of the cap to Mr.Barnes. So, I don't buy/shoot .416's. (I told you it was irrational, but then it doesn't have to make sense to anyone but me.)

But, has anyone out there any real experience with the WSM opened to these larger bore sizes? Any recommendations as to shoulder angle, feed improvement tips, magazine lengths, etc.?

Thanks for your comments and opinions...

AC

I wildcatted the 9.3X64 Brenneke (on a standard length Mauser action) to .375 caliber a few years ago.

The 9.3 Brenneke is of course a great cartridge by itself, but I wanted a 375 caliber rifle, and a beltless, standard length cartridge (2.5 inch range).

Also, what I think this wildcat brings to the table is fantastic array of bullet weights to play with....without going custom or even semi-custom you can choose from 220 grain to 300 grain.

Mine duplicates the 375 H&H factory ballistics without breaking a sweat.

It's been a lot of fun to play around with.
Mine likes Reloader 15 and IMR 4064.

Garrett