Just another Monday evening thought ...

30 Carbine, .356 at the base, .308 diameter bullet ... case mouth 0.336 (that seems rather thick ...)

So, let's say we improve it, that gives us .356-.336 = 0.020 for a shoulder .... if you ream those case mouths slightly (to 0.024 total wall thickness or .332 mouth diameter), then you can get 0.024 shoulder ... I have seen cases with less...

So why not improve the little thing, give it a grain or so more to burn and remove the major drawback and let it headspace on the shoulder ....

Just thinking out loud ...

Marty, that sounds like a lot of work to me for what must surely result in precious little gain.

I think your time and energy would be better spent on other cartridges and firearms. Sorry to rain on your parade....just my experience.

I would tend to agree with Pecos, there's no point unless it will keep one off the street and out of the bars. But that can be a good thing.

The 2-yr old keeps me plenty busy and his little brother is up and coming ....

As to the exercise in futility, forming the improved round is easy enough. Just thought it might improve the accuracy of the little sucker a bit, and chasing out the old chamber with a new reamer is a snap too ... the one grain improvement in capacity is not worth the trouble.

Would trimming .223 cases to 1.29 work? As long as you have to cut a new chamber and do some dies... opening the bolt may be easier than rebating all those rims; as long as they would fit in the mag. You would have plenty of shoulder compared to an improved .30, and brass would be cheaper. I don't know what kind of project you might be working on, but it is just a thought.

well one option listed in cartridges of the world is made by trimming .308/30-06 brass down to a considerably short length, ends up calling it a .30 kurz (similar to the german assault rifle style).
Says it was designed to give the carbines more performance, but it has capabilities beyond what the rifle can handle.
Ends up being a pretty cute round, there is also the 7.62 micro-whisper based on the .30 luger/mauser case.

Marty,
that would make a round between the 30 carb and 7.62x39... with next to no improvement, and the x39 is a "better" round

jeffe

Not really working on a project, just passing some time as I wait for parts to arrive.

As to other silly things to do with the M-1 Carbine, I am about to complete my conversion of one to 7.62x25 Tokarev, using CZ24/26 and/or Ppsh43 magazines. Using the 223 Timbs round I get an interesting dual-role carbine. Also, I can still put regular M-1 Carbine mags in the mag well and load the Mini-Whisper (the Tokarev case loaded with a 168 gr HPBTMK)

But looking at all this, I was wondering about improving the Carbine brass. It seems so logical, I guess. Brass is dirt cheap and plentiful, it requires no magazine mods (which the 30-223x1.29 version would, thanks for the suggestion!) and the action is set up for it already (the Kurz is just a bit too much as you mentioned).

The main complaints about the M-1 Carbine that I have heard over the years have been lack of accuracy, purportedly caused or augmented by headspacing on the case mouth, or else lack of power.

Improving the case solves the headspace issue, and with one extra grain of capacity, in a 16" barrel with a 110 gr VMax, it gives me 2040 fps .... not quite the 7.62x39, but not unreasonable up close ....

I dunno, just seemed like an interesting idea ...

I understand the meanderings and curiosity of a shooter waiting for parts, but why 'improve' an already inadequate cartridge? By the sane token, I going through a similar thing - been toying with the idea of converting a SMLE to 358/303Brit, would almost certainly be better off buying a Mauser in 8mm, but somehow, I hear the siren call of the 35/303!!

Marty,

I agree with you that the 30 carbine has been badly maligned. My Inland shoots quite well at 100 yards let alone 50. Personally, I would take an M2 into battle before I took a M16A2 (not that it would really be up to me, but if it were, and I had no other choices, that would be my preference).

Scott

Marty -

I would love it if someone improved the 7.62X39. How about putting some energy into that? I know the PPCs are from that case, but a .308 to .311 based on a "neck up" PPC would be useful in that it would solve feeding problems in the ARs. We need a straight clip, not a bannana.

Also the additional powder capacity would put it into the legitimate deer hunting category.

This is actually for the M1 Carbine and not the AR. For the AR, I am toying with the 308 WSSM as well as a slightly different round that duplicates the 7-08 with lighter bullets.

As to an earlier suggestion, I ran a piece of 223 brass into my Tokarev dies that I had backed out and trimmed it to 1.29. Interesting, but not what I was looking for. So then my machinist yells "How 'bout the Rem Jet Improved"

Now there is an idea!

Gonna try that with 223 brass, see how it works, with the AWB going away, I can make hi cap mags that fit this round all day long ... whoo hoo

The two drawbacks I see to this project are these: The limiting factor of the M1 carbine's accuracy is not the cartridge but the rifle used to light it.

Secondly, the proposed cartridge would not have any body taper and most likely wouldn't feed very well.

Gabe

It is funny how one thing leads to another with these things. A Rem Jet Improved is probably just the thing for the package.



Do you fool around with H&K? I have this craving for an H&K 94 built on an H&K 91 (or 93?) receiver so it will accept the 45 Winchester Magnum. A tactical light would not look as goofy on this as on my 94 trapper in 45 colt.

Marty, I wish you would turn your talents over to improving and working out the bugs on the 45 win mag conversion on the carbine,I had one of the early LeMag ones until I got talked out of it, it was a great hog thumper