Anyone played with this combo? The 300 WSM necked to a 25 caliber? I've got a Rem 700 short action (used to be a 22-250 that needs a change in caliber. I want something in either 243 cal or 25 cal that will fit in the action lenth that will get up between the 25-06 and the 257 wby. Any ideas???? Thanks

Bearcat,

I have a friend who is a fellow gunsmith who built himself a bench rifle in 25 WSM.

He built this rifle using a V-block bedding system and if performs very impressively.

The barrel is a 27" Northwest Precision and his favorite load drives the 75 gr V-Max at just shy of 4100 fps. The five shot groups I have witnessed ran in the 1/4" range and ten shot groups are regularly short of 1/2" ctc.

Though this rifle is designed as a bench rifle, it is really a long range Varmint rifle.

I am planning on building a rifle similiar to this for myself here soon. My friend likes speed so he chose the 25 WSM. I like long, high B.C. bullets at good speed for extreme range shooting so I will go with the 6.5 WSM with a 30" Lilja 1-8" twist barrel simply because it performs better at ranges past 600 yards.

For anything under that, the 25 WSM would be hard to beat.

Good Shooting!!!

50

25-284 would put you in the hunt with little fuss.
woofer

I've got one... matches 257 weatherby..

Jeffe

I just put one together. Very simple just took a savage in 300 saum screwed on a 25 wsm barrel from PACNOR. Head spaced it with a resized case, then had my gunsmith check it with a nogo gauge. Am going to take the first loads out tomorrow to check the velocities with several different powders. Am going to work up to the desired velocities and then will work on accuracy loads. I'm hoping to get good accuracy with either 100 gr partitions or with 100 gr TSX barnes. Will up date with velocities.

my gunsmith just built a 6.5 wsm and wow! what it does past 600 yards. its hard to beat. those long high b.c. bullets and that efficient powder burn. he has a 30 inch number 5 or 7 contour shilen on it. it weighs a ton but man it shoots. just info i thought you'd like to hear.

Any loading data?? What about dies, what kind and where to get them. This will be my first wildcat so I'm a little in the dark. What barrel should I use? Thanks for the info.

I only recommend Redding dies to my customers. They are very hard to beat for the price. All custom dies are expensive, might as well get great quality for your buck!

50

Go to the Short Magnum Forum...several of their members have the 25WSM and the 25SAUM.

Just got back from the range. used 3 powders and 2 bullets.This barrel was brand new and unfired until today. 24" PACNOR Polygonal with 1-10" twist. There were no pressure signs. Fed 210 Primer. 45 degrees. Chrono 15' in front of the muzzle. My goal was 100 gr bullet at 3500 and 115/120 at 3300, it looks as this will be easily attainable.

100 gr Sierra BTSP
R22-
60- 3215 fps
61 3305
62 3293
63 3340
64 3352
65 3420
IMR7828-
65-3430
66 3450

Hornady 117 BTSP
Imr 7828
-62-3200
63 3294
R25
65 2910
66 2917

I have had the V-Maxes come apart in my 25-06 IMP. at 4100, Talked to Hornady and a guy by the name of Doug said they had only tested them to 3800fps. This has been a year or so ago... Has Hornady changed the make-up of the 75gr. V-Max since then? Would love to find a 75 grainer in my 25-06 Imp. that would stay together at 4100 Any ideas on what to try?

Czechtech,

My first question is what barrel are you using on your 25-06 Imp? Is it the factory pipe that has been rechambered or is it a custom barrel? If so what brand.

Another factor in most calibers is rifling twist but since the 1-10" is almost universal in the 25 calibers except old 257 WBY rifles(1-12), this is probably not the problem.

I have had customers come in the shop wanting to use the Speer 50 gr TNT .224" bullet in their bigger 22 rounds like the 22-250 and such but are afraid they will not hold together.

I have yet to see a 22 caliber rifle with a 1-14 twist not shoot the TNT bullets extremely accurate even out to 3900 fps. But they still say the bullet will not handle the strain.

Here are a few things to try,

#1) If you have a factory barrel, the barrel may be a bit rough, this will strain the bullet more then a lapped barrel which will be glass smooth. This does effect bullet integrity.

#2) use a powder with as slow a burn rate as possible to still reach your velocity goals with the light bullet. In the 25-06 Imp, 4350 and 4831 from IMR are good, as are Rl 19 and 22. H-450 is another good one to try.

The slower the burn rate the slower the bullet is traveling when it is slammed into the rifling. The higher the velocity at this point, the more the bullet is strained and this in itself can cause the jacket and core to seperate and when the bullet leaves the bore it will come apart at worst or be very inaccurate at best.

Think of the slower powders easing the bullet into the rifling with a softer push then the faster powders.

#3) on that same line. It may go against conventional wisdom, bt seating the bullets to touch the rifling also tends to ease the strain as the bullet is engraved by the rifling. Again this is because there is no velocity before the bullet hits the rifling. From the moment the bullet starts moving it is rotated by the rifling.

When a bullet has a decent jump to the rifling, it gains alot of velocity in that small space. Since the bullet is traveling straight forward at the time it hits the rifling, the forward portion of the bullet begins to rotate before the rear of the bullet does. This in turn twists the bullet just like wringing out a wet towel. It is this twisting the destroys the integrity of the jacket/core bond.

If you seat the bullets to touch the rifling, you MUST reduce your loads and start at a lower safe starting load and work up your load again.

There is nothing unsafe about seating your bullets into the rifling unless you are using a hard bullet such as the Barnes X or the Wincheter Fail Safe. But for a conventional lead core bullet, only a slight reduction in powder charge is needed. If you do all the load developement with the bullet on the rifling, you will produce totally safe loads.

#4) One final thing to try is to coat your bullets with a high grade lube. I impact coat laboratory grade Moly on most of my bullets. Some will tell you this is a waste of time but here are the advantages I have proven to myself over +10,000 rounds of varmint hunting.

Here are the advantages:
-Lower barrel temperature(less bullet friction)
-Lower bore fouling(a result of less friction and less bullet heat. Yes the cooler the bullet, the less it will foul)
-Same velocities with less pressure OR higher velocities at same pressure( compared to non coated bullets. Increase is usually in the 50-75 fps range)
-Higher ballistic coefficients with coated bullets.(This is a result of less bullet deformation caused by the rifling) This in turn will result in increased downrange velocity and energy. The increase is small but it is enough to measure, in fact when shooting out to 1000 yards and beyond, it is very measurable.

So how will moly help you with the 75 gr V-Max bullets. IT helps ease the strain of the bullet in the bore. I have an example to prove that moly will help your problem, not cure but help.

I have a 6mm-284 built on a Win 70 action with a 30" Lilja 1-8" twist three groove barrel.

Using the 105 gr A-Max bullets, this rifle shot three shot, 300 yard groups under 1/3 moa consistently until the muzzle velocity reached 3150 fps. At that point, it was like the bullet would self distruct.

This was not because of the bore finish as the Lilja barrel is one of the very best for smooth bores, it was because of muzzle velocity and rotational velocity. The long bullets simply could not handle the strain.

I then coated the bullets and worked up again. With coated bullets, the accuracy maintained up to just shy of 3300 fps. After that they still came apart so I switched to the 107 gr Sierra MK which took the velocity up to 3600 fps.

Point is that simply coating the bullets can ease the strain as they are rammed down the barrel. Something to try, I will not say that moly will allow you to get 4100 fps but it may get you another 150-200 fps.

The friend I mentioned is a fellow gunsmith and his rifle is built using the best of everything, I can nto say why his rifle would shoot this bullet at 4100 and yours will not but I would say it may have to do with some of these factors.

An 85gr Ballistic Tip at 3800-3900 fps may do just as well for you. They have a better B.C. and they can handle any speed most of us can dream of.

Good Shooting, let me know if anything works for you.

50

Winchester has decided to standardize the 25 on the WSSM case. There is an article trying it out on a Texas deer hunt in one of the magazines this month.

Fjold,

We are discussing the 25 Wsm not the WSSM. The 25 WSSM will produce velocities just shy of the 25-06 where as the 25 WSM will run very close to the 257 WBY in a 26" or longer barrel.

I think Winchester missed the boat on the 25 caliber, I feel the 25 WSM would have been a much better selling round. But I quess they know better then I what will sell.

Good Shooting!

50

Will my Rem short action (used to be a 22-250) work with the 25 WSM? I'm assuming it will, my magazine box measures 2.8" and the WSM case is about 2.1" that leaves .7" for the bullet. Is that enough room? Also the guys at Shilen are telling me I need a 1-9 twist to shoot up to 115g bullets, comments or experiences on that subject? Thanks guys!

The faster twist will help to stabilise the heavier bullets, but projectile speed will help this as well, so i wouldn't get all bent out of shape deciding between a 1:9 or a 1:10. As for the magazine length, you can by WSM boxes from brownells in standard short length or extended (3.1") length. If it were mine, I would go with the extended version. FWIW - Dan

Fiftydriver,
Thanks for all the ideas, the barrel is a Shilen and I have given up on the 75's from Hornady and I am currently shooting 85gr. Combined Technology bullets with very good results. I believe they are superior ballistically speaking.As for powder Iam using RL-22 with the bullets about .030" from the rifling.

Czechtech,

I woudl say your setup using the 85 gr bullet is a better one anyway, not that the V-Max isn't a good bullet, I just put my money on the B.Tips over other varmint bullets. They are a bit spendier but they are well worth it in my mind.

Your powder and bullet seating depth are perfect in my book as well.

I just build a 6.5-06 Imp for myself and shoot the 140 gr A-Max from Hornady as this rifle will be my 1000 yard chuck rifle this season. I use Rl-22 as well and drive the heavies to 3150 fps. Getting 1/2 moa groups at 100 yards so far but will move back to 500 yards next to see what this rifle will really do. Bullet drop does not bother me, thats easy to figure but I hate wind drift, that why the heavy, for its .550 B.C.

Good Luck, I would stay with the B.T. if I were you.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Dan:

How would I get an extended mag box in a Rem short action? Would you have to have a smith mill the receiver to accept a longer box? I'm really not interested in shooting anything over 115g's probaby 100g's most of the time as 100's at 3500fps would put the hurt to anything mule deer size and smaller. Thanks everyone for the imput, keep em comeing, I would like to hear more.

Fifty

Is there any difference in the head diameter of the 25 WSM and WSSM. I don't imagine there is but I do not know for sure. I screwed up and had a reamer ground for a cartridge based on a .300RUM before either the WSM or WSSM was introduced. The RUM is about .005 smaller in the web area and brass cannot be made up using the Win. cases. I push the shoulder back far enough that the brass is .016 to .017 thick in its new neck area, it takes five or six fireings to come close to fireforming the new cases. The new case holds about 58 grs. of water, and is still legal in HBR. The rim has to be rebated and the extracter groove recut,as I do not want to sacrefice a four hundred dollor bolt. I am not even sure that the boltface could be opened that much. I would have liker to use the Win. cases, had they been out at the time. I could have had the reamer reground, but it is too late for that. The one plus is that now that the cases are somewhat formed the ctg. seems to be shooting quite well. I hope to chamber a hunter barrel and use it at a few matches this year. Any tips that you may care to share will be welcome. Thanks. Bob

Does your name imply that you shoot a BMG? I just picked one up, an AR50, and am still picking up a few odds and ends that I need to load.

Is there a source for correctly necked and headstamped brass for wildcat cartriges? If so please let me know I would be interested in maybe going this route.