American Hunting Rifles offers a proprietary line of cartridges developed by Ken Howell [I think]. The parent brass is made by Bertram in Australia.
Does anyone know anything about the quality of this brass? The web is supposed to be thicker than standard '06 brass. Is this stuff any good? If so, it looks like it might be a sensible way to get more performance from a non-magnum '06 sized bolt-face.

Thanks,


Jordan

Jordan, I have also been looking at Howell's cartridges, as I am looking for a rimless case to neck down to .257, that has a similar or maybe slightly larger capacity than the .257 Weatherby.

I am currently using a 25/06 AI, with a 1 in 10 twist barrel which is working well. However, I have just ordered a 1 in 7 twist barrel which will replace a worn out 25/06 AI barrel on another rifle. This barrel will be using the 130, 142, and 156 grain 257 cal Wildcat bullets.

I was looking at the 250 Howell, and noted that the basic Howell line are moslty 2.600 inches in length.

I live in Oz, so I rang Bertram's today, who are somewhere in Victoria. I spoke to Bruce and he informed me that the brass would definitely be strong, but did not mention any specific pressure limit.

He thought he only had some .380AHR brass in stock, but was going to check, and will send me a catalogue.

One interesting suggestion he made, was to suggest the 425 Westley Richards case, which uses a rebated 06 (.467) rim, is about .543 at the head, and 2.640 inches in length. Some might say a .284 Win case on steroids.

I will post again, if I find more information.
Brian.

quote:

Originally posted by brianw:

One interesting suggestion he made, was to suggest the 425 Westley Richards case, which uses a rebated 06 (.467) rim, is about .543 at the head, and 2.640 inches in length. Some might say a .284 Win case on steroids.

I used 425 as a base to an 8mmX425WR X2.5" Wild cat. Both of the manufacturor's brass sold by RCBS was too soft. roger

Well, you're looking at really expensive bras, and custom cases, not to mention a rechamber, for what exactly? Are you somehow stuck with a rifle that can't have the boltface altered?
Myself, I'm not so into pushing cartridges to the max, and now that you can get insanely big rounds over-the-counter, there's no need. If the '06 case won't do what you like, got to the short belted or WSM. If that don't do it, go full-length belted. If that don't, there's the RUM. And so on.
A 6.5-06, 300 Win, 358 STA... I just see no need for that expensive stuff.
Unless you just want it, in which case nothing we say will matter.
(I've also heard that Bertram is softer than most, but I have no experience with it.)

I think Ken Howell was the first to print with info about shortened 404 cases for both large bore and medium bore wildcats, but others were right behind him.

If that line of cartridges appeals to you, I would look at the Dakota line.
It's not that the Dakota cartridges are better, but they are more established, and brass is easy to come by, as well as reamers.

Garrett

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Well, you're looking at really expensive bras,

Fredrick's of Hollywood or Virginia's secret????

Has anyone other than me practiced unhooking Bras with his arms around a lamp shade????? roger

That's no problem. I just can't get the lamp to shut its trap and let me sleep after!

-and N Garret, I think the short 404 thing is a real gem. We're talking about slightly lengthened '06 cases.
And on that note, if you're set with 3.34" COL, the case length isn'tt a limiting factor with heavier bullets (like I like.) The 180g .308" is usually into the shoulder, for instance. A 250g .358" would be right about there as well.
If you wanted to make a 3.5" out of the '06 case, it might be useful, though the circumstances that would bring that "need" about elude me presently....

Roger, Thanks for relating your experience with the .425 Westley Richards brass, and I will certainly eliminate that case from the prospective list.

Bwana-be, The 25/06AI with the worn throat, is based on a Sako AV action, and my gunsmith said although it was possible it wasn't practical to try and make the action accomodate magnum cases, as there were numerous problems in the conversion. This view was backed up by another experienced gunsmith today. So this rifle is restricted to .473 size rim cases, and an overall case length of 3.600 inches. I will probably rebarrel and chamber it for the 280 AI.

The Sako L61R 25/06 AI with 24 inch barrel achieved 3,550 with the 100, 3,300 with the 115, 3,150 with the 130, 3,050 with the 142, and although I did not chrono the 156 grain bullet, estimate it would have achieved about 2,900 fps.

For my large 25 cal project, I am hoping I will achieve about 3,200 - 3,250 fps with the 142 grain bullet, and about 3,100 with the 156. To achieve this, I believe I need a case(preferably rimless) with a capacity of about 85 to 90 grains. The rimless case options I have been investigating are the 6.5x68mm, the 7mm Dakota, the 7mm Rum, all of which are capable of producing a case with the desired capacity. The first 2 options are expensive brass, but relatively easy to neck down, but the 7mm Rum is inexpensive, but would need to be shortened to reduce the capacity from about 104 to 90 grains.

I am now looking to buy a Rem 700 magnum action which also has a magazine length of 3.600, but can be extended to 3.91 with the Wyatt extended Mag box. I estimate that the magazine length of 3.600 would be OK with the 125 ULD (1.268 in), 130 BCFBHP (1.220), and 142 grain ULD (1.350 in), but definitely too short for the 156 grain ULD. (1.550 in)

I have noted that the 25/270 WSM has a case capacity of about 78 grains, but from chrono results I have seen to date, the extra 5 grain case capacity does not seem to produce any more velocity (or accuracy) than both of my 25/06 AI rifles.

The 2 Krieger barrels (.224 and .257) I have ordered will not arrive in Oz until the end of January 06, so I have another 2 - 3 months to decide on the case that I will use. Brian.

The case is 2.6". However unless your magazine box will allow you set the bullet out farther than you do with a 30-06 you don't get much from the longer length. I tried this brass in one of my wildcats. The brass was thicker. I normally use a 280 Rem Norma case blown out I tried taking a AHR case. The norma held about 2grs more water.

I have not done a side by side velocity comparison between a factory and AHR. Their site is down so I can't see their claimed volume. If you ASSUME a 10% increase in case volume and ASSUME you can increase the powder charge by that same 10%. For an 06 based case loaded to the SAME MEASURED PRESSURE you will normally see 1% gain in velocity for each 4% gain in powder. So a 2.5% velocity increase on a 2950FPS round would be 73.75 FPS. When people get higher increases than this it is because the improved case hides the pressure signs.

If you want something different or topic for the campfire go for it. But, no game will ever notice a 75-100FPS difference.

Bwana-Be,

I have owned a 300 Dakota for about 7 or 8 years.

I still haven't fully explored what it can do (but I'm on it).

Garrett

quote:

Originally posted by Jordan:
The parent brass is made by Bertram in Australia.
Does anyone know anything about the quality of this brass?

I have been greatly disappointed by Bertram brass. The following problems occurred:

1. Brass too soft (sticky extraction with mild loads)

2. Brass did not fit chamber (improper rim and/or head dimensions)

3. Flash hole not in the center of the case (damaged the die).