A friend of mine has a TC Contender bbl. that he can't identify the caliber. It's stamped .30 M1 but it has been rechambered to a bottlenect cartridge. After checking chamber dimensions, it appears to be a .22 PPC case blown out to .30 cal. Does this wild cat have a name? Are dies available? Anyone have any data? Enquiring minds want to know.

Migra

Migra

Check the dimensions carefully. It's most likely a 7.62 x 39mm Soviet. But, could also be a 30 PPC which is the same thing except for shoulder dimension and angle. Shooters have necked the case both up and down. Is it rimless? There is also rimmed PPC brass available. Also, check the base dimension carefully. There is a rimmed 30 wildcat based on the 30-30 case called the 30 Streaker. The difference in the base between the 30-30 and the PPC is only about .020".

Ray

It's rimless. The 7.62x39 round makes sense now. After I took dimensions, I started checking loading manuals for case dimensions. None of my manuals list the Russian round. Is the 7.62x39 a .308 diameter bullet?

It's not a 7.62x39. I dropped one in the chamber and it's about .070 below flush.

Sounds like a rechambered barrel. No good guessing ... get a chamber cast done.
Cheers...
Con

migra

The 7.62x39mm Soviet is a nominal .311 bullet diameter but it can be loaded with .308 bullets with good results. The firearms that use this cartridge are not known as tack drivers and .003 difference in bullets is not going to make it any worse.

It sound like you may well have something along the lines of a 30 PPC. But, as Con says, it's probably a good idea to make a chamber cast.

Then find the guy who re-chambered it and wring his neck for not marking the barrel. things like that could be serious.

Ray

I'd already come to the chamber cast conclusion. I don't think tracking down the guy that rechambered it would be possible but like you said, he needs his neck wrung. Anybody out there have chamber dimensions for a .30 PPC?

Migra

Look here, about half way down the page... AR15barrels has them shown with a diagram.

.30 PPC case dimensions

This ones got me totally baffled. After making a chamber casting, .300 PPC isn't the answer. Neither is a .30 herret. By all appearances it's a 7.62x39 that someone ran the chambering reamer in too far. I'd post a diagram of the chamber casting but I'm too tecnologically challenged.

Anyway, it's a shot in the dark but here are the dimensions I came up with.
Overall length: 1.580"
length to base of shoulder:1.230"
length to top of shoulder:1.385
neck length:.195"
neck diameter:.338"
diameter at base od shoulder: .432"
head diameter:450"
shoulder angle appears to be 30 degrees but I'm not sure how to check that.

By all rights a .30-30 reamer should clean this up if I absolutely can't identify this mystery cartridge.

Migra

Migra

That is a strange chamber (especially the .450" base) and no doubt is a wildcat one-of-a-kind. I can tell you this much. Back in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, there were several wildcats made using the 220 Swift, 6.5 Jap, 6.5 Mannlicher, and 6.5 Carcano brass. Those cases all have a base diameter of about .445 - .455. Many of the ones based on the Swift case were called Baby Swifts. They came in different lengths all the way down to 1.5 inches or so. The fellow who designed the PPC (Palmissano) was shooting one of them when he came across the 220 Russian brass and switched to it. There were a couple based on the 6.5 Carcano case called a Guppy. The case length was about 1.66". The 22 GUPPY is almost identical to what you described except for the caliber.

Unless somebody can come up with something better my guess is that the barrel is one of those types of wildcats. You could probably make some brass and shoot it but you'd also have to fire-form a few cases and then get dies made. All that will cost $$$$. That .450 base would keep you from re-chambering to a 30-30 or anything based on that case.

If you know a guy that really likes wildcats and has a Contender sell it to him.

Maybe somebody else has some ideas.

Ray

Keep in mind that these are chamber dimensions not dimensions of the imaginary brass that may or may not fit it. It's not even my barrel. A friend gave it to me to identify and I'm not sure how keen he is on wildcats. This could be an ebay item. Really pretty octagon bbl. magnaported etc. It would appear that someone turned it into a real abortion and sold it off.

Migra

It's an oddball...

Reaming it to something more common shouldn't be too big a deal.

I'd look at the 300Savage first, standard .473 case head.

Not knowing what it is will make a bit more difficult to sell.

AllanD