Is there any advantage to going to the 40 deg shoulder other than a couple hundred FPS? Is it inherently more accurate?

Thanks,
Ruger#1

The Ackley is not neccessarily more accurate. More velocity is fun but the real advantage is the life you will get from your brass.

i'm inclined to agree with Lightnin. I was pushing 4350 with a 40 gr. bullet for coyotes out of a 24" barrel, and got excellent life and accuracy out of my cases.

Thanks, I have been playing around with the idea of bumping my Ruger #1V out to AI, but wasn't really sure that the advantages were worth the cost. I think I'll just leave it as it is.

Ruger#1

If your standard 22-250 shoots ok now then leave it alone. There is always the chance that work on it could make it worse! Some say the case life with improved cartridges is better but I never have. By the time you get thru fireforming and testing new loads were there is little data you will have spent most of the time at the range.

For many this testing is the fun of it anyway and then there is the miracle of the improved cartridge!

If the barrel is a faster twist than the standard 1-14 then a velocity increase will be gained with heavier bullets but not enough to bother with in the lighter ones.

Of the three cartridges I would much rather have a .220 Swift anyway but the standard 22-250 is excellent just as it is.

Of course if something is wrong with the existing chamber then the improved version might clean it up. The .220 Swift has much less body taper than the 22/250 as it starts with a smaller diameter head diameter and therefore will not clean up a 22/250 chamber. The barrel would have to be set back so far as to make it impractical.

It it ain't broke don't fix it.

I've actually built a few 22-250 AI's out of 22-250's and IMHO it's a much better cartridge than the 22-250. You will get about 200-250 more fps which translates into a flatter trajectory which is quite important on a varmint gun. The 22-250 AI is a much much better cartridge than a .220 swift. The swift tends to flow alot of brass into the neck because of the shoulder design and you wind up having to neck turn and trim a swift literally every time you reload it. I'm more cautious of case length in a Swift than in any other gun I own.!! The 22-250AI hits the same or better velocities as the Swift and doesn't flow nearly as much brass. I'd say it's also a bit more inherently accurate than the swift. Considering that most good gunsmiths won't charge you an arm and a leg to convert a 22-250 to a 22-250 AI it's a real bargain!-Rob

Ruger#1,
If your 22/250 shoots good now, it will shoot as good or better after its' improved. It's not a pricey operation to rechamber just make sure that it is done properly. The barrel must be set back a couple of threads. I just rechambered a Shilen SS select match barrel that was chambered for .222. It would shoot in the mid .100s to low .200s as a .222 and will shoot the same as a 22/250 Ackley. It is a 1 in 14 twist and likes Sierra 53 gr. matchkings. It also shoots the 55 gr. real well and is absolutely devastating on whitetails with this bullet. Rob is right on with his comments. Jim

[ 04-30-2003, 07:19: Message edited by: Lightnin ]

I don't agree with Rob at all. I have been loading the Swift since 1955 and I don't have any more neck thickening or stretching than any other cartridge.

I suggest than anyone having such problems check their pressures and use a chronograph. You may be loading the Swift much hotter than a 22/250. Neck and case lenghening also come from the lack of lube inside the neck. Use lube in your necks and a carbide expander ball for all reloading.

The Swift has a much stronger head than the 22/250. Cut them in half and compare them. That may be your problem. Your overloading the Swift!

The new Sierra #5 has loads for all three of these cartridges. The 22/250 Impr. and the Swift seem to have similar capacities.

If you are not getting any stretch in your 220 Swift then you are underloading it and are not getting near 22/250 A.I. performance. Just by virtue of the shoulder angle the swift will be harder on brass than the 22/250 A.I. It has to stretch, it does stretch, and it always will stretch. Even you can't change physics Mr. Martin!

[ 04-30-2003, 19:25: Message edited by: Lightnin ]

I am loading for a factory .220 Swift barrel 26" long. The load right now is 40 grs of RL 15, 50 gr Sierra Blitz King and CCI br2 primers. It chronographs at 4125 fps instrumental. What's your load?

Now take for example a cult cartridge not known for excessive stretching, the .257 Remington Roberts. It has the same body taper as a Swift and just a little less shoulder angle!

Savage99- No neck stretch on a Swift huh! Have you ever really shot one? I find your statements impossible to believe. You must be the only person in the world to never have experienced problems with the .220 Swift! Who cares about the case head, it's the shoulder thats causing the brass to flow into the neck! It's the neck that grows in length not the case stretching from the head foreward!Have you ever sectioned a Swift case after a few reloads and compared it to a new case? Please do so and measure the shoulder neck thickness! You just might learn something!
From seeing some of your other posts I see your simply another know nothing Troll! I should have known!-Rob

This is a good arguement.

I got rid of that case stretching 220 Swift and went to a 22/250 Ackley Improved. And just how in the Hell do you draw a parallel between the .257 Roberts and the .220 Swift? Same body taper and shoulder angle and a whole lot less capacity.
"Cult cartridge"? What planet are you from?

Rob,

Please read my previous post. I said that the Swift does not stretch any more than other cartridges. Not that it does not stretch.

Now I think we are closer to agreement?

Since I maintain that mine don't stretch more than others perhaps it's something that is being over looked by those that are having problems.

I think it's just a myth however.

The lot of new WW .220 Swift brass that I just got from Graf last winter has thick necks. They run .0145" to .015' wall thickness. At first I was concerned about such a tight neck so I turned the first few ones for test shots. It turns out that it's really a good thing as now I have a "fitted neck" and this rifle shoots very well. But again most Swifts do. After six reloads the neck wall thicknesses are now measuring .011" to .0115" Thus these necks are not getting thicker but indeed from FL sizing with an RCBS FL die and Hornady carbide expanding button they are getting thinner just as any tool maker would expect them to.

There is no significant sign of insipiant head separations so far. From very hot loads experianced handloaders know that cases stretch. Of course they do but the Swift is very similar to many other cartridges and it's stretching is also similar to the others.

You mention the shoulder of the Swift. The Swift has a 21 degree shoulder! This is sharper than the shoulder angles of the 243 Winchester, 308 Win and aformentioned 257 Roberts.

What are your loads for the Swift gentlemen?

Hey I know.....

Lets just all rechamber to 220 SWIFT / Ackley Improved.......

Chuckbuster,
Sounds like a good plan to me! Jim

Savage99= I've been shooting a swift for more years than I can count. Robgunbuilder is absolutely right.From what I've read of his posts, he's forgotten more about swifts and 22-250 Ackleys than I or you will ever know! The swift blows brass into the neck worse than any other cartridge and if you ever really owned one, you'd know that for a fact.I think he's right and your just a lying sack of shit troll.

470 Nitro,

First of all you don't need to call me names. I have been wrong on this forum about gun related subjects before. If I am wrong on this particular topic I will either admit it or withdraw from the discussion when it's obvious what the correct answer is. Another thing. The use of profanity does not make your case. We are all rifleman here. I am a life member of the NRA like my son and my father before me. If you have something to add then present it in a fashion that leads credibility.

If you have some facts about the Swift "blowing the brass into the neck" please post your data. I would like to know all of your specifics. I too have been loading and shooting the Swift for a long time and I can remember and have records of the results.

I gave my neck thickness data above after six reloads. What are your results?

Theres the idea, withdraw from the discussion. What a novel IDEA!!! Savage99 just go away.

Mike

Savage99- I've been shooting and reloading a 220 Swift since the 70's. I've probably shoot 2000 ground hogs with it and 4 deer. My pre -64 M70 220 swift needs to have its neck turned and trimmed every time I shoot it. That holds true for five other Swifts that my buddy'd own too! They own Ruger number ones and custom Mausers also!You really want us to believe that's not true that this cartridge moves brass? You want to come over here and trim my brass for me? Come on ! Admit it, you really don't know what your talking about. I don't give a shit how long you've been an NRA member, your full of shit and I'm tired of reading your sorry posts! sO ARE ALOT OF OTHER FOLKS HERE FROM WHAT I CAN TELL!

Man oh man, what is up with you guys? You sound like a bunch of old hens. Who cares how much you guys know about a friggin' cartridge? Since when is that more important than personal integrity?Truth is, though i don't know the guy, Savage 99 seems to be pretty tolerant of you all. i would be less so. Sounds like a few missed spankings may be in order here.

sscoyote,
I think you need to research
savage99/donmartin29 posts real closely when you get a chance and then reconsider who tolerates whom. And I don't mean to imply that Mr. Martin has never posted useful and accurate information because that certainly is not the case. However when you post something in error and 15 or 20 people call you on it and you are most definately wrong, then it is time to A. push your keyboard under the desktop or B. move on to another subject where you can be of help. I don't post just to pound a keyboard and if someone shows me I am wrong I will SHUTUP after I apologize. I'm one of those people that doesn't have a problem saying "I was wrong and I'm sorry" Jim

Hate to get in the middle of this but you are all spliting hairs on this topic. 22-250, 220 swift,22-250 ack doesn't matter you are all playing little games with all of these to get just a couple more feet out of them. They are all fine just the way they are. They are in fact varmit rounds and with the right gun with the right shooter.....don't forget this....the right shooter....they will all out shoot each other on certain days. All of these in question are tried and true and will knock a tick off a groundhogs ass if you squeeze not jerk the trigger and know your rifle

Well, just to add my $0.02 worth here, I tend to agree more w/ Savage99. I recently sold a Remington 40XB-KS, in .220 Swift w/ about 850+rds down the barrel. Not as much as some of y'all, but a reasonable number. I was doing about 99% range and load development shooting so I kept a close eye on dimensional changes. Unfortunately, I didn't record neck thickness values that I can find.

I used mainly Hornady Frontier brass, which was fairly heavy and thick. Neck turned to clean it up, and trimmed to published trim length ( whatever Sierra said ). IIRC, I usually got about 4 firings before I felt it necessary to trim (i.e. the longest cases were creeping over the max trim length). Occasionally 3, sometimes 5, but on average, and most of the time, 4. And I was shooting what I felt to be fairly stiff loads. The gun shot it's 'best' when it showed light pressure signs on the brass (light ejector marks, etc.), and thrived on 55gr Hornady V-Maxes, and 53.4 'clicks' of 4064 on a BR30 (36.something grains).

As always, your mileage may vary. But calling someone names because they disagree that a .220 Swift needs trimmed each and every firing is in and of itself just plain assinine. If you've been loading the Swift since the 70's or whatever you claim, then I suggest you act your age.

Monte

Milanuk,
If you are/were loading for a 40XB then you were/are not loading for a standard factory chamber are you? You've got to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Jim

Actually, yes, the 40XB is a factory rifle. Little better grade barrel (air-guaged Douglas, IIRC, vs. the normal $15-25 tomato stake on a 700VS), more expensive stock (McMillan kevlar fiberglass stock vs HS Precision) and it's clip slotted. It came w/ a factory test target w/ two groups of about 0.45 or so. Nothing extra special about the chamber, or anything else. So yes, it's still a .220 Swift, so we *are* talking apples to apples.

Monte

Well most of you guys may have never heard of the Weatherby 220 Rocket. Long gone off the Wby cartridges list. It was ahead of its time a truely modern improved 220 Swift. A hot shot if you ever want one. Very easy to make. A 1-12 twist would be my choice with 60 gr bullets. Fred M.