Who has brass for the 8x56 MS, can't find any at Huntingtons! Can I resize 8x57 or what?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Who has brass for the 8x56 MS, can't find any at Huntingtons! Can I resize 8x57 or what?

There should be little trouble resizing 8x57 or even 30-06 cases for that matter. The .465" head diameter could possibly give you a little problem but if you select cases and you don't have a tight chamber you should do OK. I have both RP 8mm cases and 06 cases that measure .465" dia. roger

bartsche is quite right!! Most any 8mm Mauser case makes a good donor for 8x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer. Just do not be suckered by 8x56mm Rimmed Mannlicher ammo for the M1895 series rifles. They are both described as 8x56mm, but they are totally different. Look them up in Cartridges of the World! Better to research and save some money before spending it on the wrong brass/loaded ammo.
LLS

OK and thanks...and it looks like .323 bullets so it seems to be a pretty easy number to play with...What kind of velocity can one expect with say the 170, 180 and 200 gr. bullets. Looks like .358 in the making to me..???????

Not knowing your rifles pressure capability I would only feel comfortable relating factory load velocity. The 200 gr. bullet was loaded to 2200 fps.That's about 120 fps. less than the 8 X 57JR Factory Load. The energy levels are 2150 ft.# compared to2325 ft.#.

If it were me and I had a bunch of H414, I'd put 47gr. of it behind a 170 grain bullet for starters. roger

I remember seeing an 06 case necked down with a phonogrph needle. If memory serves it was a demenstration of how ductile brass can be.

My old Powley Computer lead me to H-414 for this cartridge over 30 years ago (1975 to be exact), with 44.5 grains H-414 and a 200 grain RN. Supposedly 2270 fps and approx 43,000 psi. I have never chronographed the load, but it shoots well in my M1908.

LLS

I like Sierra 2's 44,4gr. load even better . Why not? You'll arrive where it should be eventually and the lighter load gives you a greater margin of safety! roger

quote:

Who has brass for the 8x56 MS, can't find any at Huntingtons! Can I resize 8x57 or what?

The OP may have me on ignore, but Huntington's has the case-forming dies for the conversion from 8x57. I don't know about brass.

http://www.huntingtons.com/dies_caseform.html

Just trying to help FWIW.

Well I got it all figured out and its not really much of a problem to reload, but I not real impressed with its balistics..so I passed.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Well I got it all figured out and its not really much of a problem to reload, but I not real impressed with its balistics..so I passed.

Ray! It's not too late to rethink this.

Get the 8X56 and you won't be forced to screw around with that 25-35 anymore. roger

Acording to Nonte's cartridge conversion book, you can make these cases by trimming .30/'06 brass and sizing it in an 8X56mm Mannlicher/Schoenauer die, then loading with .323 bullets. I see no reason why 8X57mm Mauser cases could not be used, saving you some trimming!

He gives one load using 50 grains of IMR 4895 with 150-grain bullets for a MV of 2650 FPS, and one with 170-grainers and 47 grains of IMR 4895 for 2450 FPS. These loads put this cartridge in the .300 Savage class......

Ray: Ken Waters used a 405 Win FLS die to resize the 8x57 case bases to form 8x56MS and 9x56MS. It in his PET LOADs (big red book) pg.926

I just got 2 boxes from Quality Cartridge with correct headstamps and all. +/- $48.00/box.

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Originally posted by huntingcat:
I just got 2 boxes from Quality Cartridge with correct headstamps and all. +/- $48.00/box.

I bought my first rifle for less than that. roger

quote:

I bought my first rifle for less than that. roger

And your point is?

I load 8x56M/S from 8x57Mauser brass. Not wishing to spend the $$ for what real dies cost these days, I went about trying to find a way using what I had on hand.
I am using new unprimed/unfired R/P at the present. I use an older RCBS 8x57Mauser FL sizer die to bump the shoulder back. To do that I took a shell holder and turned the top surface down (thinner) so I could push the case deeper into the die. It doesn't need much. Then I trim to length.

The R/P cases needed a few .000" taken off of the base to chamber freely, but other brands may be small enough in that dimension not to need any work. I took the 3 or 4 thou. off in my lathe. Lacking that, I'd be looking for smaller base dia cases, or some other die to slightly swage the base for me.
Most would chamber with some force w/o any work on the base dimention, but I cleaned them all up anyway.

With the cases all trimmed, shoulder set back, ect so they just chamber with a slight feel to the bolt, then I load them as any other CF rifle cartridge with the 8x57 seater die.
I've been working on some 4350 powder (becasue I had it on hand) and old Norma 200gr bullets. I don't hunt,,just a range shooter.

One thing I discovered with the 'older' RCBS dies in 8x57 I have is that the FL sizer has a very small step in the top of the neck area. That smaller dia at the very top is the only area of the case neck that gets resized down far enough for the expander button to draw through and give it a decent diameter to hold onto the .323 bullets.
My 8x56mm cases will now not reach that area in the 8x57mm die.

So to neck size only for reloading after the first loading, I use a 32acp seater die body w/the .323 expander stem in place and hanging just below the die. The fired 8x56mm case passes over the expander, enters the 32acp die body to size down the neck only. Then when withdrawn, is pulled down over the expander button to bring it back to the right size for correct bullet tension.
Depriming is a separate function but a simple punch/hammer does the trick quickly.

All that fuss would be elliminated with a newer 8x57Mauser FL sizer die I suspect, but as I said I was doing this with what I had on hand at the time.
Prime, powder, seat the bullet again with the 8x57Mauser seater die and back to the range.
May sound like alot, but it's not really. It became a 'can do' project to get ammo made for the rifle. Hated to see it just sit in the corner. I have one box of original Western 8x56 ammo that came with it. It seemed wasteful to just shoot it up for some reason and not have any other source.

A couple of pics....The rifle w/the orig ammo.

A couple of the reformed and reloaded 8x56MS rounds made from 8x57Mauser brass. Note the polished area at the base where the brass was removed. The cases in the pic have been loaded 6 times according to my sheet.

Lastly, I remark the 8x56mm cases by changing the Mauser marking on the 8x57 case. I change the 'U' to an 'N' and put a '/' after the 'S'. Makes it MANS/...kind of 'Mann Schoenauer/'. Keeps me from wondering if it belongs in one of the 8x57 rifles

Before you rush off and buy an expensive .405 Winchester die to swage down the base of your cases, (8x57 Mauser tend to be a big oversize in 8x56 chamber), measure the brass you have on hand. Different brands vary and some may not need swaging. Chambers vary too and so too do dies. You may find when you smoke the base or mic' it that the .405 die doesn't actually touch it, (my experiance with an older Lyman die).

My M1908 shoots older Norma 8x57 Mauser brass with no pressure issues and without needing to be swaged, but later manufactured stuff may be different. I simply run the FL sizer die down a bit at a time until the bolt closes on it with light resistance and that's the headspace issue sorted. A cross-check is to visually inspect primers after firing. If they're left partly protruding, (as they will in this moderate pressure cartridge), there's excessive headspace and you've screwed the die down a bit too far.