I'm trying to decide on new cartridge. Is the 280 Rem AI worth the effort of forming cases? Can I shoot factory 280 Rem in the 280 AI.

I hand load for several rifles now and one is a wildcat - 338 Hawk. So I'm comfortable with the wildcats.

I like the option of being able to use factory ammo in the event that I forget to bring my handloads. I want to shoot 150 to 175 grain bullets and the action has room for an oal of 3.36". There is a good bit of data for this wildcat. I hear that case life is good and seldom need to trim. don't know about velocity improvements. Dies are a bit more expensive?
I will use a 24" barrel.

Plan to hunt deer/antelope with it. The 338 has me covered for Elk. Actually I have a 270 Win that covers the deer, just always wanted to work with the 7 mm bullets.

Your thoughts are welcomed.

If you want one then it is worth it. I am in the process of building a 280AI myself. I have everything (action, stock, trigger, scope, reamer, dies, brass,.... ) except the barrel.

If the 280 AI is chambered correctly (slight crush fit on 280Rem ammo) then you can use 280Rem factory ammo. If you can find 280 ammo on the shelf of a store where you hunt you have a lot better store then around where I hunt (western ND). About all that most of the stores have is 223 Rem, 243Win, 270 and 30-06.

I would not expect more the 150fps over the 280Rem and if you get more safely then that is just a bonus.

Good Hunting
Jeff in ND

I have a 280 Rem AI and I guess playing around with it is worth it, but maybe not for extra performance. Others will have to decide if 100-150 fps is worth it. I just wanted it to have more to do reloading and shooting, something different I guess. A properly chambered 280 Remington Ackley Improved cut from a standard 280 Rem has to have the barrel setback first. This step allows for the proper headspacing of both standard 280 and the improved rounds. I just buy $12 a box 140 grain green box ammo to fireform. I've found my Weatherby shoots just under 2" with this green box ammo while fireforming. My hunting loads shoot under an inch. Dies are more expensive most wildcats.

I had a 280 AI and was a little dissapointed in the chamber dimensions. All of my fired cases swelled badly at the base at anywhere near peak performance. I was going to blame my buddy for the chambering job until I read a knowledgable article about 280 chamber specs. It seems Remington made an oversized chamber and a low pressure load to make sure they would extract easily from their pump gun. SAMMI chamber specs are therefore sloppy for the 30-06 case. You would be better with a 7mm-06 AI reamer as this chamber better matches the cartidge dimension. The author of the article stated that he switched to 9.3x62 brass to solve the dilema but its a bitch to size down to 7MM.

A .280 improved is something nice to play with. It really is a fun adult toy. The performance increase appears to be marginal at best, however. Will it kill a large mule deer any better than the parent cartridge? Will it reach out significantly farther to down an antelope? If you try to justify the cost of the project in increased performance you might fall just a little short.If want it so that you can say to your chums " Hey look what I got and am I having a ball"; you will indeed have your pay of.

Kenny Jarrett has written quite abit about the .280 AI. He really likes the cartridge. He says it can get you to the doorstep of factory 7mm Mag velocity and with alot less powder. It blows alot less powder out the muzzle than the 7mm Rem Mag.

I've had a couple and liked them all. 150 grain bullets at +3000 fps is a nice combination in the .280 AI. What I like to use is Lake City National Match 30-06 brass, or Lapua 30-06 brass necked down and fireformed. If you want max velocity, the Lake City stuff is the strongest. Make sure you check neck dimension of your chamber against a loaded round of the necked down '06 brass.

Jordan

had a jarette, was not worth it, little improvement at reasonable pressures so it moved on to someone who wanted it more than me..i still have 4 280's 2 7 rem mags and 5 270's..the 270 would be my choice if i could only keep 1 cal. it is hard to find 280 factory ammo and mine are fennicy 1 load only rifles, the 7 mag weighs about 1/2 more pound for really little actual killing power ..

It is hard to justify any new caliber, but it's easy to rationalize one!
Shayne

ShaneC...Spoken like a man who's been there!

I had one built on a 700 action with a 30" Pac-Nor barrel..... WORTH EVERY PENNY SPENT!!!

While there will be no real improvement if it's done right you may enjoy the cartridge. It's fun, at first, seeing the fireformed cartride extract and they do have an attractive shape.

The net cost will be about $250 when your done with the chambering, dies and loss of value of the gun as a resale item. But that's not a lot of money and every handloader should have had one.

There is a article to read here under the title of "Precision Shooting" about the AI's. It repeats the myth of less case stretching and instead rates the cartridges in a casual manner.

If you want a real improvement then put the 280 aside and buy a rifle with a larger cartridge. You could get an entire rifle at Walmart in 7mm WSM for what that AI hobby will cost in the long run.

I've never had one but I always loved the standard 280. A good friend of mine who I knew since boyhood (the "old" kid in the neighborhood) swore by them after switching from the 270 late in (his) life. He died recently of botched treatment for cancer at only age 58. He was raised on Jack O'Conner. He spent his whole life in the singular pursuit of sheep hunting, interspersed with a lot of other more mundane hunting. He was the only guy I have heard of who had a double slam in this modern age. After traipsing most of the North American mountains for the main part of his life, he claimed it to be the best he had ever seen for the job.

Savage99,
Why do you continue to tell people that they will lose resale value on anything rechambered to an Ackley chambering and that reduced case stretch is a myth? I think before you make further comment you should try an Ackley and then speak from experience, something you obviously have none of now when it comes to Mr. Ackley and his work.

trigger... if you have a 270 already, and also use a 338, but want to work with a 7mm, then how about a 7X57!

Trigger

You abslolutely need the 280 A.I.!
The only difference between the 280 and the 7 Remington is 150 feet per second. The 280 AI. certainly closes the gap.

Seems like a must have to me!

Hope that helps your quest.

Jamie

I had a 280 Rem. and now have a 280 AI, and it is a major improvement over the factory cartridge. I get 3175 fps chronographed velocity with a 140 grain bullet and 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I would never get a 7 mag instead.

In Nosler #5 they got 40 fps more by fireforming the 280! That's about what I got, using the same barrel by the way, in making my donation to the gunsmith world with my 30-06.

On another topic someone is getting 3400 fps with 140 gr X bullets using Mag Pro powder in a 270 WSM.

I just concentrate on keeping on my side of the road. I had a good day at the range today however.

[ 10-14-2003, 02:32: Message edited by: Savage 99 ]

Is it worth it.It is to me.I've got one and it's shooting 3225 fps all day long with 150 ballistic tips.
Deano

Deano:

What powder, brass and barrel length please?

Thanks,

Jordan

I took an accurate Rem 700 in .280 and had it rechamberd to the AI. Bought a Redding 3 die set off the net for $40.
The 700 has a 26" #3 taper Douglas with the whole mess in an HS Precision drop in stock.

Right off the get go I liked fireforming cases and seeing that sexy AI case emerge. I was surprised how well it shot factory ammo too. Basically as well as it did before.

Spoke with a guy who has been down the road with AI's for a few years. He gave me a bit of wisdom. Whatever the added case capacity is, in this case 8%. Cut that in half; four per cent. Multiply that by what the unimproved case gave you in velocity. So...... 3000 fps with 140's should be 3120 fps with the AI. Sure enough he was right.

With Re 22 and 150 Nosler ballistic tips I get right at 3150 fps with very acceptable accuracy. IMHO a pretty perfect long range (if needed) deer/antelope load. Will they notice an extra 125 fps? NO. But who cares?

I like mine. Is it worth it? For me it was. It has performed a bit better than the parent case and I didn't lose any accuracy. Plus I think the AI case is just plain neat looking. And.... Its something a bit different than every body elses .270 or seven mag.

Do it!!

FN in MT

Savage99,
I don't recall saying anything about Mr. Kilbourn or any of the other "wildcatters" of the era. I am referring specifically to Ackley and his cartridges. You know the ones that stop case stretch and are a breeze to fireform because it's just a matter of taking the parent case and firing it in the new chamber? Is it worth it? You bet it is. And you ought to take another look at your dad's 30-06 AI. With some of the powders available today that is a very useful cartridge. I have just recently acquired two .30 cal. 1 in 10 twist A&M barrels and one of them is going to become (drumroll please) a 30-06 Ackley Improved. Will it do anything magical that any other .30 won't do? Not likely. Is it worth it? Absolutely!
Everyone should get at least one fireformed cartridge. It's fun and will get you through the winter. Then if you pay attention you will realize you have spent a couple of bucks wisely and in most cases gotten a dramatic improvement. You have also (if you talk to knowledgeable shooters) enhanced the value of your rifle. A used Ackley will bring as much money as any other used rifle. And if you dispute that you should try to purchase one that was built by the master himself. Reduced resale is a load of crap. These are not MHO, they are facts.

wow, I actually agree with Jackfish!!

the 280 is a great choice, BUT if and only if you have a 280 and want a 7mag... OR you have a standard boltface action that you want zero problems feeding with.

if you want 7 rem or 7wsm performance, get one of those fine calibers

you have the choice at the begining....

jeffe

Jordan,
I'm shooting a 28" hart #5 barrel on a left hand Browning Medalion(SP).
I'm shooting Remington brass & 58 Grns.of imr 4831 with Federal primers. I have no pressure signs on any cases. I worked up this load very carefully; with 59 grns.it started showing a little pressure so I backed of a full grn. Shooting 32 and some change consistantly thru chrono.
Deano

Mr. White,

The Sierra handbook has loads for the 30-06 Ackley. They don't recommend it.

I have the same powders that you do. The cartridge is no improvement. In fact it's a pain. The regular 30-06 is the universal cartridge. With equal pressures 40 fps, that's all.

Mr. Martin,
Why don't you compare pg.550 and pg.551 against pg.559? I think unless you are using some sort of new math there is 100 fps to gained. I have the same reloading manual that you do. I realize that 100 fps ain't gonna kill an elk any deader but so what? I can't justify it but I have rationalized it and I am going to build it. And I don't much care what Sierra recommends as I build rifles to suit me and my customers.