hi guys, first time posting in te wildcat forum. ihave 2 rifles chambered in 17x28, i have been playing with for about 3 years now.

one is aa cz 527 hornet, (full article in Small Caliber News Vol 9 No. 1 spring 06) and the other is a cooper 17ccm we rechambered to 17 v-raptor(full article in Small Caliber News Vol 10 No 2 Summer 07).

here are some groups fired in the last couple days. the first is from the cooper, fired at 100 yards with a 20 gr vmax and aa1680 powder


the second is from the cz, again shot at 100 yards. left group fired with 20 gr vmax and 8.7 gr. enforcer powder, the second is the same load bullet combination as the cooper.
the cz's chamber is .010 longer than the cooper.

What are you getting for velocity with the little bugger?

here are some of the results
Powder Charge Bullet Weight Velocity Group
WW 680 9.4 Hornady vmax 20 3359 .62
WW 680 9.6 Hornady vmax 20 3430 1.51
WW 680 9.8 Hornady vmax 20 3547 .51
WW 680 10.1 Hornady vmax 20 3642 .43
aa1680 9.4 Hornady vmax 25 2911 5/.43 4/.33
aa1680 9.6 Hornady vmax 25 3077 .62
aa1680 9.8 Hornady vmax 25 3090 .55
aa1680 10.1 Hornady vmax 25 3112



aa1680 10.2 Hornady vmax 25 3166 .50
aa1680 10.3 Hornady vmax 25 3208 .48
aa1680 10.3 Hornady vmax 25 3132 1.026
aa1680 10.3 Hornady vmax 25 3162 .674
aa1680 10.3 Hornady vmax 25 3199 .750
aa1680 10.3 Hornady vmax 25 3238 .924
n120 8.8 Hornady vmax 20 2993 .822
n120 9.0 Hornady vmax 20 3087 .755
n120 9.2 Hornady vmax 20 3127 .57
n120 9.5 Hornady vmax 20 3283 .461
n120 9.7 Hornady vmax 20 3312 .2

n120 9.9 Hornady vmax 20 3384 .293


imr4227 8.0 Hornady vmax 20 2647 n/a
imr4227 8.5 Hornady vmax 20 2831 n/a
imr4227 8.8 Hornady vmax 20 3028 .477
imr4227 9.0 Hornady vmax 20 3070 .809
imr4227 9.2 Hornady vmax 20 3196 .718
imr4227 9.4 Hornady vmax 20 3255 .711
imr4227 9.6 Hornady vmax 20 3310 .467
imr4227 9.8 Hornady vmax 20 3473 .707
imr4227 10.0 Hornady vmax 20 3504 .873
ww296 8.0 Hornady vmax 20 3012 n/a
ww296 8.5 Hornady vmax 20 3192 n/a
ww296 8.8 Berger hp 20 molly 3355 .296
ww296 9.2 Berger hp 20 molly 3462 .960
ww296 9.4 Berger hp 20 molly 3562 .750


WW 680 9.6 Berger hp 18 3415 1.04
WW 680 9.8 Berger hp 18 3543 .669
WW 680 10.0 Berger hp 18 3565 .691
WW 680 10.2 Berger hp 18 3605 .389


powder charge Bullet mfg. weight Av. velocity Group size
enforcer 7.9 vmax 20 3089 1.5 cln bbl
enforcer 8.2 vmax 20 3196 .60
enforcer 8.5 vmax 20 3282 .45
enforcer 8.7 vmax 20 3422 .7

Bug Hole, it sure likes ww680 doesnt it!
Lucky it's so miserly on powder, finding ww680 is getting harder all the time, do you have a good supply?

probably 3#, enough for about 2100 dead squirrels, then i go to aa 1680. thunderbird out of pheniox still had a supply of 680 last i checked.

Hi bug hole.
Do you have a close up pictiure of the cartridge?

sure do, here is the 17 velociraptor next to the parent case 5.7X28 on the left and compared to a quarter, the most bang for the buck i've got.

Quite smal and sexy litle cartridge yuo got ther.Wath is the reaction on the squirrels when you hit it?

you hear a thwack followed by a thump, the thwack is the bullet hitting them in the head and the thump is them hitting the ground.
it's instant lights out and they never hear the thump.

quote:

Originally posted by bug hole:
you hear a thwack followed by a thump, the thwack is the bullet hitting them in the head and the thump is them hitting the ground.
it's instant lights out and they never hear the thump.

I know the sound,i have been fox hunting whit my 22-250 Bullet:40gr w-max whit a silencer,nice sound when the bullet hit the animal.

after having some initial success with getting the rifle to feed, the clip thru me a curve, it wouldn't feed more than one cartridge a time. turned out it was the design of the follower for a rimmed case rather than a rimless case.

the follower is ground down to facilitate a ramp moving the cartridge up into the chamber. here is where the problem is, the grind is not parallel to the top of the follower, it tapers off toward the rear. this means the rim of the second or last cartridge is below the bolt and can't be picked up.

solution, curt a piece of stainless steel .50 long and .040 thick, taper the front to a knife edge to keep the rim from catching when loading. epoxy in place and it feeds flawlessly,and the magazine now holds 3 rounds

awoke this morning to soup like fog, visibility was about half the way down the drive way. the crows were making a lot of noise off in the distance and were quite active.
out came the foxpro, placing it on a rock with the speaker pointed up and the volume set to about 50%. made a quick retreat back to the garage and backed the atv into the open side of the garage. the thought was to use the shooting bar as a rest and it worked like a charm.
after hitting the play button on the remote it sounded like a flock of crows were fighting in my yard. the first crows showed in less than a minute, circling over the tall sycamore trees.
as usual the first to land is the first to die, it landed in the top of a walnut tree about 90 yards out. the 17 velociraprtor (4.4X28 based on the 5.7x28)went off with all the recoil and fury of a 22 long rifle, saw the bullet strike the chest area of the crow.

Harley my beagle looked confused, usually when the rifle goes off manna from heaven falls at her feet, usually in the form of her favorite meal, squirrel. the crow didn't fall to the ground like most do, it had a death grip on the limb with one claw.
the second and third crow suffered similar fates and the forth came barreling down at mach 1 and almost hit Harley. I'm sure she thought the sky was falling.
5 minutes after the first shot was fired the crow lost it's grip and came whizzing thru the tree and smacked the ground with a thud.

load 10.4 gr AA1680 20 gr vmax 205 primer at 3524 fps, the exit hole is about the size of a silver dollar, all loads were feed from the Cooper model 38 clip, i love it.

shot the cooper 17 v-raptor this morning, after acquiring over-flight permission, trimming buck brush and weeds my range has been extended to 171 yards.

here are four groups shot on the new range, 7.1 gr n110 20 gr vmax wolf srp 3083 fps, 8.5 gr n110 20 gr vmax 205f @ 3410 fps (fireform load), 8.7 gr's of enforcer 20 gr vmax 205f @3401 fps and the fourth group is the same as the third but with necks turned and a slight scope adjustment.
the straight cut in the middle of the blue dot is where the staple was.

fyi, fiocchi makes the 5.7x28 ammo.

rob behr, returned my email, said he wished dan would let hin release a cooper in this or some version of the 4.4x28.



shot my limit of fox squirrels yesterday with the cz 17 mach 2, 5 for 6 was within .25 of the eyeball , man i love that little rifle ammo combo.

One day I would like a rifle like that, nice short range caliber for small game.

Tyler, what do you consider short range? the cartridge with under 10 grains of powder propels a 20 gr bullet at 3600 fps, trajectory looks like this:
1.5" high at 100 yards
+.08 at 200 yards
and 3.2" low at 275 yards.
what ranges are you shooting at?

I like red mist, that little 17 shoots pretty flat, but what about wind deflection and energy? I want a 1000 yard prairie dog pretty bad.

a thousand yards might be asking just a little to much from 10 grains of powder,this is my 300 yard squirrel rifle,1000 yards, thats what i have a 22-250 AI and 75 gr amax bullets for.

Yes, my last post sounds pretty bad, I meant to say the 17 looks good for 300 yards and under, but I wanted and longer range capable rifle.

I plan on using my 6mm Ackley for a 1000 yard prairie dog. I'm only 16 so I have plenty of time. I got one at 650 this summer with a 22-250 but it was an insane amount of luck. I had about 30 shells left and some guys were shooting at them out there with their bigger rifles, 300 WSM and such. Out of 30 (at least) shells, I hit 2. (45 grain factory loads, not very aerodynamic). Once I got my elevation right it was just a matter of dealing with the wind, which was about 30 MPH side to side, not good for hitting small things.

That 17, a 223 or 22-250 with heavier bullets, and the 6mm Ackley would be fantastic for prairie dogs. I'm assuming the barrel doesn't heat up fast with the 17, it would be like a HMR on steroids. Have you tried any Bergers in it?

tried som 15's 18's and 20 they shoot well but are expensive. it's cheaper to shoot my 17 velociraptor than my 17 hmr.
i built them for fox calling but moved to an area of the country with a lot less fox.
now the crows are in trouble.

What about the heavier 17 caliber bullets?

can't shoot anything hevier than 25 gr bullets in the cooper and the twist rate is wrong for the 25 gr vmax bullets. the cz with it's 1-9 twist barrel will do 25 gr vmax and the 30's. haven't dinkered much with the 30's but the 25 vmax shoots real well at 1325 fps.

Are the 25 grainers exploding like a vmax at that low velocity. I'm not sure I see the niche for the cartridge with that velocity though, why not 22 LR?

the woodchucks i have shot with the cartridge have died in their tracks. shot a many a fox with a 17 ccm cooper with zero pelt damage.

have had several fox hit with the 17 hmr run off and never be recovered, velocity was to low for the hydrostatic shock factor to come into play.

the optimal velocity for on the spot kills on fox is 3000 fps with a 25 grain bullet, the 25 gr vmax is more explosive at 3000 fos than the hollow point.

here is a picture of a mixed bad of bobcat and gray fox from a afternoon hunt, 10 fox and one cat, a total of 17 fox were called that day, four ran off when shot with the 17 hmr and 3 were to far away from the vehicle to darg back along with the rifle and equipment.
no fox shot with a 17 centerfire has ever escaped on me, the 17 centerfire that day was a kimber in 17 ackley hornet .
here'a a morning hunt with a 17 ackley hornet.


and a squirrel shot with the 17 velociraptor, 150 yards. \

and a groundhog shot with the 17 velociraptor.

Bughole,
Have you tried any berger 17's?
I sold my 17 hornet Kimber but have a bunch of 15,18 and 20's samples, maybe a couple hundred in all. They are to light for my 17 rem, if you want to play with them in your little pet I'll send them to you. you can let us know what a 15 grn will do Give me a shout if youd like them.

glad to try them, personal message sent.

thx
bob

where are yall getting brass? Do you have a drawing of the velociraptor(love the name) and who chambered it for you?

kevin weaver peyton colorado (weaver rifles)has the reamer and did the chamber.

brass , do an internet search , a lot of swat teams use this round. i got mine off ebay back when you could list it.

I am thinking of buying a 14 inch HMR barrel for my contender and having it rechambered for the 4.4X28 What ya'll think. (opinions) ! !

Lyle

Haven't seen you posting in a long time YUMAN!

The velocity should be well above HMR limits, and is reloadable, but I bet it will be loud. Most of all it matters what the owner wants though, I have seen 7mm RUM pistols, seems like a waste to me, but to each his own.

you might look at OTT (on target technoligy), mike will edm a new chamber for about 125.00. not sure how much velocity you will loose from a 22" barrel.
i had mike do a 17 viper concersion on a 24" 17 hmr barrel and it shot very well.
the 17 viper is a shortened 17 mach 4 with a .250 long neck.


the cartridge;


the forming process;


HUMM, highjacked my own thread.

now you just need to re barrel a five-seven or ps-90 in it