Does anyone have one? Chamber drawing or reamer?
I want to use that case with .338 dia bullets.
I know I could go .340 Roy, but don't want to do so.

Thanks

As far as I know it’s based on the 300 H&H case. This is the only drawing I have of it (It’s not QL compatible).

What do you want out of this cartridge?

Thanks, that agrees with some info I have, specific to shoulder dia. Neck length matches some info. However, Keith book "Keith's Rifles for Large Game" shows a photo of a much longer neck and shorter body. Page 157. That is what I need to resolve.. It may be a difference of who made the reamer. I have order some brass from Quality Cart. Emailed Pacific Tool on measwurements they use. No response from either on measurements. Obviously, capacity will vary with which base to shoulder length is used as that changes neck length

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
What do you want out of this cartridge?

Slick feeding, something between .338 Win and .340 Roy. And to be different.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
What do you want out of this cartridge?

Just got off the phone from Quality Cart.
From the measurements he gave me over the phone, everything agrees with your drawing except neck length. He had a box in inventory and they go out to me in the morning. We'll see what Santa delivery has in store

quote:

Slick feeding, something between .338 Win and .340 Roy. And to be different.

Why not... I have been kicking around the idea of having a .350 Griffin@Howe built for the same reason and for nostalgia,



Cal30

What’s the neck length so I can fix the drawing?

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
What’s the neck length so I can fix the drawing?

Well, that's the issue. I think it's in the area of .50" from some Elmer w3ritings from the past. As I recall he said a "long neck", but not an exact measurement. Years ago I had a .424 OKH and as I recall the neck was in the area of 1/2" Do you have a drawing of the .424 OKH?
At any rate whether it agrees with that or not I'll have the chamber made on the basis of their cases.
When the Qual-Cart cases get here, I'll measure it and let you know.

The .280 Dubiel Pacific dies I have makes a neck of .360 when the case measures 2.85 OAL, do the .34 for the .334 is in the realm of possibility, as Elmer ilked that cartridge as well.

I'll just have to see what the brass looks like

I’m afraid I don’t have that drawing, Oh well, I’ll eventually get it. I do have the drawings for the 285, 333 and 338, which are made from different cases.

quote:

I'll measure it and let you know.

Please do.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:

quote:

Slick feeding, something between .338 Win and .340 Roy. And to be different.

Why not... I have been kicking around the idea of having a .350 Griffin@Howe built for the same reason and for nostalgia,



Cal30

I was tempted by the 350 G&H as well as the 350 Rigby

I am really puzzled by the case drawing. Not disputing it, just don't understand it. The length to shoulder matches the 375, not the 300. The shoulder diameter is less than either the 300 or 375, but the shoulder angle is much steeper. I calced the taper, and it is different than the 300, so it is not a case of extending the case line to the new shoulder, it took a whole rediesign. If they wanted a long neck, they could have simply necked down the 300. If they wanted more capacity, they could have necked down the 375. The only plausable thing I can think is that they tapered the body more for better feeding and then moved the shoulder forward to regain the case capacity. That doesn't really make any sense, since the 300 is already one of the smoothest feeding cartridges ever made, period, and sticking on a 34 deg shoulder would defeat any gains you made in feeding. Sometimes people may just have more time on their hands and want to do something. I suspect the 300 and 375 had already been necked to 338 by several people and they were looking for something different. You have to keep in mind that Elmers buddies were in the business and always looking for a "hook" that will sell. Outside of nostalgia, a simple 338/300 would likely be better, or a 338/375 if you wanted more capacity.

MickinColo
I would appreciate seeing any drawings you have of the OKH cartridges. Thanks

Anyone have reloading data for the 424 OKH?

quote:

Originally posted by dfcjr:
MickinColo
I would appreciate seeing any drawings you have of the OKH cartridges. Thanks

The 285 according to the source of the drawing was originally a duplex target load.

quote:

I am really puzzled by the case drawing.

Art S,

Me too! As I try to make accurate drawings of old widcats I find it very hard. These guys spent more time writing about the performance of their super new rounds than making real drawings. Sometimes (it appears) these guys changed the parent cartridge or dimensions in the middle of round development and didn’t bother to mention it in their publications.

quote:

Originally posted by dfcjr:
Anyone have reloading data for the 424 OKH?

I have lost the book I had my loading records of the .424 written in several years ago, so I cannot help there. Lacking any data, I would think one could lood at the .416 Hoffman on the top end and the .425 Express on the lower end as a place to start

An old Speers reloading manual has a drawing of the 333 OKH case. Here are some numbers
Post 2.490 Speer 2.4400
Post 2.099 Speer 2.0900
Post 1.950 Speer 1.9480
Post 0.440 Speer 0.4410
Post 0.360 Speer 0.3580
Speer angle
17degrees 30 minutes

I may be mistaken and can't look it up right now, but wasn't the 333 OKH the cartridge that was developed while Keith was at the arsenal and they were working on duplex and triplex loads? If I remember correctly, some of the loads even had soldered in flash tubes to ignite the front of the charge first and confine the burn to the case. If my memory is correct, care should be exercised in trying to duplicate their work.

quote:

care should be exercised in trying to duplicate their work

Where the real care should be taken is in the duplex loading part of it, Elmer stated in a controlled envirement (shooting bench ) it performed fine.

But went on to say in the field it would be difficult to keep the powders seperate and would cause possible dangers.

This is close to what is written by him in his book ' Hell I was there'


Cal30

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
What’s the neck length so I can fix the drawing?

Santa arrived today.
Minor differences. Biggest is shoulder dia. of the brass, near as I can measure it it is .445-.447, which is bigger than they told me on the phone, which was the same as your number. Neck is short like yours, I measure it at .327, case length 2.794.

If you have Elmer's book "Keith's Big Game Rifles", look on pages 157,366, & 374 for pictures of the .334 OKH compared to other cartridges of "known" size then you will see why I question case body length and neck length. One can measure the pictures and by % of other known cases it is easy to see Elmer's original design did not match later numbers that has gotten into the media writing. By Elmer's own words it "had a long neck". It's strange Elmer showed pictures and descriptions, but never the actual measurements unless it's in his "Gun Notes" books 1& 2, which I donot have.

At any rate, we'll go with the Qual-Cart brass as the gospel, but lengthen the total case to 2.85". I wanted the shorter body length that Elmer's pictures show so if someone wanted to rechamber to .340 Roy, then they could. As is I don't think so, very border line.

PM sent.

Thanks for the post.

I actually had time to flip through a couple of old books, and found in Gun Notes Volume II that, apparently, the last column Elmer ever published was on duplex loading the .333 OKH. He stated that not only was loading critical with the flash tube, requiring heavily compressed loads, but that it could only be safely fired in special tight chambered rifles. If a normal chamber was used, the brass would expand, the flame front would flash back to the rear of the case, and everything would go to hell. He recounted experiments by others with the technique blowing up their heavy pressure gun.

quote:

Originally posted by dfcjr:
An old Speers reloading manual has a drawing of the 333 OKH case. Here are some numbers
Post 2.490 Speer 2.4400
Post 2.099 Speer 2.0900
Post 1.950 Speer 1.9480
Post 0.440 Speer 0.4410
Post 0.360 Speer 0.3580
Speer angle
17degrees 30 minutes

We'll see what it looks like when i get home. Thanks!

dfcjr,

was there a COAL?

I have in front of me an original 334 OKH cartridge that was given to me by Elmer Keith when I was a little kid and he was my hero.

It is formed from 300 H&H brass. The shoulder starts about 1/16th inch beyond where a 300 H&H shoulder begins and is very sharp. The rest of the case is neck, about 1/2" long. The overall length of the cartridge is about 3.75"

It is interesting that the body length of the 334 OKH is almost exactly the same as the 338/378 KT.

I do not have a way to post pictures but I have a scan of the 300 H&H, 334 OKH, and 338/378 KT that I can email if anybody is interested

quote:

Originally posted by 338guy:
I have in front of me an original 334 OKH cartridge that was given to me by Elmer Keith when I was a little kid and he was my hero.

It is formed from 300 H&H brass. The shoulder starts about 1/16th inch beyond where a 300 H&H shoulder begins and is very sharp. The rest of the case is neck, about 1/2" long. The overall length of the cartridge is about 3.75"

It is interesting that the body length of the 334 OKH is almost exactly the same as the 338/378 KT.

I do not have a way to post pictures but I have a scan of the 300 H&H, 334 OKH, and 338/378 KT that I can email if anybody is interested

Any chance he gave you a .424 OKH as well?

Unfortunately the only cartridge I ever got from Elmer was the 334 OKH. When I was reading everything I could by him that was the cartridge I thought I really wanted to have and kept bugging him until he gave me one for my collection.

Did you get the scan of the 334 OKH I emailed to you? Hope that helped clarify some of the questions.

quote:

Originally posted by 338guy:
Unfortunately the only cartridge I ever got from Elmer was the 334 OKH. When I was reading everything I could by him that was the cartridge I thought I really wanted to have and kept bugging him until he gave me one for my collection.

Did you get the scan of the 334 OKH I emailed to you? Hope that helped clarify some of the questions.

Got and sent an email back.

Thanks