Anybody done one of these on a bolt or single shot action? Issues to consider?

25-35 Improved, 25-35 ICL Coyote, and 25-35 Tomcat. Look 'em up. They're close to 50 years old.

Don't forget the 25 Bullberry . . .

The issue to me would be do you want a long neck or a short neck. The shorter the neck, the more case capacity you get, althought I don't think case capacity is the limiting factor in the 25-35 or .30-30 case design.

I'd look for a 0.30" +/- long neck.

This was the one round in Mr. Ackley's set of books that "blew me away." 70 grain bullets at 3800 fps as I recall. When I has "settled" I got to thinking and guessed that this was in the single shot, STRONG, rifles, cf. 1885 Winchester. Mr. Ackley was a fine gentleman with patience for young fools such as I. I wrote and asked and he said, "No," get this right along in win 94 lever actions!

50 years old? I would guess at least 75 and closer to 100. The .25/35 is a necked down .30/30 or .28/30... the old Ballard rim that began at .375 as the .38/55. Later, .219 Zipper in .22 form. .32/40 black powder. .32 Special in smokeless.

As indicated many, many forms/names of the .25/ .30/30 wildcats, improved or full wildcat. Different shoulder angles.

Mr. Howe pointed out that the Jap WW II 6.5 action was made for a rimmed/semi rimmed round, the 6.5 Jap cartridge with magazine so re engineered and could be adapted to the .30/30 family most easily. Back when those were common among former soldiers and sailors of the WW II era.

The other cheat for Mausers is to use the .225 WCF case necked up. Reduced rim.

Mr. Brown, eabco.com, has a line of house cartridges on the work of Mr. Donaldson. The "BR's" (full length improveds) has a 6mm available, alas, no .25...

For something that will take a "factory" (IF you can find a factory round!!!) this is one of the best. .25 Krag Improved only slightly more. Comparable to .257 Roberts Improved. Enjoy your search, you should be quite satisfied. Luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
25-35 Improved, 25-35 ICL Coyote, and 25-35 Tomcat. Look 'em up. They're close to 50 years old.

Maybe longer than that ,Ray. roger

You guys are right. Time flies by faster, the older you get. 50 years old is 1959. I've got shorts older than that.

I was talking to a young fellow the other day. When I mentioned that the War Surplus stuff is now becoming very collectible he thought I meant the 1st Gulf War!!

Ray

i have been playing with a belmm 24" barrel on my contender now for about 6 months. it was challenging to make the brass. blowing out 25/35 brass was a dismal failure. also working up loads was interesting because i think mr ackley was pretty optimistic with the load data. very hot in some cases. so far, i have an excellent load that chronos an 85 gr nosler ballistic tip @ 3200. that is showing signs of pressure but it is inside 3/4".

if you like playing with oddballs on your reloading bench then this one will keep you busy.

I have a custom A W Sukalle Borchardt in 25-35 Improved. About the only way to form brass without losing a lot is to seat the bullet shallow and keep trying to close the breech. When it goes, you are in business. Mine has a 1:12" twist and shoots about everything under 1" at 100yds. I used 250 Savage starting loads as a guide.

Rich
DRSS

Thanks for all the comments so far. I have a very old Winchester 94 in 25-35 and have a couple hundred once fired brass. While I will not alter that gun, I could use the brass for a different gun. Can I run the once fired brass through a 25-35 AI die without over stressing the brass? Sounds like one of the challenges is getting brass formed due to the taper in the original 25-35 brass. Based on Ackely's books, this one seemed to provide the greatest degree of velocity improvement. I have a 30-30 AI in Marlin 336 and found that the Ackeley data was warm to hot for that gun after rechambering.

By the way, the gun referenced above was made in 1905 based on serial number so the 25-35 cartridge is at least 100 years old in it's current form.

Another point Mr. A covered in the books. Forming brass. He seemed to think that the brass before WW II was somewhat different than after and easier to fire form. He prints a letter from a man who said that he formed all his basic shape brass, .219 Don Wasp if I recall, by using cornmeal or cream of wheat over pistol powder to get the basic shape and then a full power load to final form.

I have done that with another Ackely and it works good with Win and slightly less good with Rem brass. A few Remingtons cracked at the shoulder. [Shot the cornmeal into paper and dumped the waste into the garden for fertilizer...]

Just running the fired brass into the AI die won't do it and anneal would probably be in order too. Dip in molten pure lead works. [Please, no live primers...] Luck.

the corn meal trick works very well unless you are inside a shop where i made a mess with it. my method for making 25/35 ai cases, is that i start with 30/30 brass with NO DENTS. the dents will cause the case to fold over. i would first run the cases through a 6.5 japanese sizing die. it doesn't have to be that exact die but it is what i had. that starts to resize the neck and doesn't change the body. i then run the cases through the 25/35 ai die for final neck size. i anneal the cases and then use a small amount of pistol powder with a cast bullet to fireform. the last batch used about 9 or 10 grains of 5744 powder. generally this leaves the shoulder slightly rounded but it gets you to where you can load standard loads with 25/35ai dies. whenever i tried to blow out 25/35 cases, i would get about 70-80% failure. for me, annealing didn't help much. you are trying to move too much brass all at once.

quote:

70 grain bullets at 3800 fps

I think a little review of loading manuals and some reflection will show that this level of performance is not a reasonable expectation for the 25-35 Improved if acceptable safety, case life and life of the firearms is considered.

The velocity shown above exceeds what the 25-06 is normally loaded to with 75 grain bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by iiranger:
Another point Mr. A covered in the books. Forming brass. He seemed to think that the brass before WW II was somewhat different than after and easier to fire form.

And he was right! Back in those very early post-war days, I had various varminters in chamberings like .219 Improved Zipper, .22 Savage-Improved, .22/30-30,and some Krag wildcats as well. There is no doubt I had FAR less brass loss with the earlier brass. I'm not sure what the metallurgical difference was, but the stuff from the 1920s/early '30slooked like it had more copper to it proportionally...i.e.less zinc. Anyway, it fireformed without splitting much better for me, in my guns.

My first idea was to get a .25/35 Coyote on an M94, as Juenke-Saturn was here in town. They wouldn't do it for me as they were concerned about safety.
Many years later, I came across a 1942 M94 .32 Special that would be perfect. I bought a reamer for the Ackley version, which has the shorter neck. I've seen no problem with it.
My gunsmith cut a barrel on to a Ruger #3 at the same time as mine. Both are 24" 10"twist Pac-Nors. The main difference is that I usually shoot flat- or round-nose bullets.
Most of the time, I use cast FTRNGC's, but I run jacketed bullets thu, too.
60gr Hornadys go 2800-3000fps with AA2520, IMR4198, and H335.
75grainers get 2600-2800fps from BLC#2, IMR3031, and H4895.
And in case I run across a deer that I want to invite to dinner, I've played with 117gr Hornadys. I would use 100gr in the single-shot. 2300-2400fps work fine with IMR4064, AA2700, and H335. I'll be working with other powders as time goes on.
Higher velocities are quite possible safely, even in a lever gun, so feel free to experiment.
If you want a lot more powerful cartridge, get a bigger one, like a .25 Short Krag, or a .25 Krag.
I used to have a .219 Improved Zipper, so I have a set of forming dies to reform .30/30 cases. As I was approaching(Ha! I was getting...)100% loss with .25/35 cases, I got 500 R-P cases and reformed them, the fire-formed. PERFECT!! (400 .219'S AND 100 .25/35)
I hope you have as much fun with yours, as I've had with mine.
Gene

Nevmavrick, have you tried other brands of 30-30 brass for forming the 25-35 cases? I have a bunch of once fired Fed and Win 30-30 brass I could use. Did you have to turn necks or just neck down and fireform?

quote:

p

rflshtr- I don't see why it would make much difference what make of case you use. The main problem with .30/30s is that their necks are quite thin. All the cartridges that use that base are set to use the thin necks....25/35, .219 Zipper, and .32 Special. I don't know about the .32/40, but I would think so. I use my Federal cases for my .357 Herrett, for no particular reason. I had bought a lot of cases...500, so I just used 200 of them for my .25/35.
I thought the necks were too thin, already, so I haven't turned them, nor did I for my Zipper-Improved. Just neck down and shoot. I used starting loads for the Imp case, if it fit into the case.
Have fun,
Gene

I once had a 22-30/30AI in an Encore Barrel. I found using 375 Winchester brass resulted in less lost cases. The 375 brass is a bit thicker than the 30/30. It takes a bit more to neck down and turning the necks may be required.